to wonder why any American's are against Obamacare?

[lowfatiscrap12]

Please, if you're an American, or if you're not American, tell me.
It's driving me insane.
What's wrong with proper healthcare for everyone?
I've got a few American's on Facebook, who happen to live in trailers, so not wealthy people, and you'd imagine they'd be more supportive of Obamacare than anyone.
I don't get it.
What's the problem?
Why would anyone want to keep the current system where one illness can bankrupt a family?

"There's also a belief that healthcare is a privilege, not a right. ... If you can't afford healthcare and if that results in your early death from illnesses that are easily treated then so be it. The rich have 'earned' the right to have good health and long life, the poor haven't". @SmellsLikeTeenStrop

Your description sounds like society in so many dystopian novels.

NatashaBee This is the link that gives more infomation. Basically premiums over $27K for a family are going to be taxed at 40%. These policies are held up as being the policies held by wall street titans. Let me tell you that the guys working under DH are not wall street titans. They are everyday people who are earning $50-60K a year which is not a lot for the NYC metro area. One of the guys is going in for major sugery in mid July and will be in hospital for a month. We had an option to keep the coverage we have and pay the difference. The premiums next year are due to increase to around $23K and we will pay around $8K in copays (if my last pregnancy is anything to go by) which is included in the amount taxed. DH's employer is passing the cost onto us so we are looking at a bill for $3,200 in addition to the $8K of out of pocket copays.

NapaCab Yes they were issues that were already present which is why I thought someone who was reforming the system would address them. They have expanded coverage without reducing the cost which is going to create an unsustainable healthcare system in the long run.

I forgot to mention last night when I wrote my long post that I think making people who do not buy insurance pay a fine is very wrong. These are people who can't afford coverage and would normally be covered by medicare. Instead of issuing a fine why not set up a basic insurance plan which is government run and charge them up to 1% of their income per the tax return.

Hazlenutt Steven Hawking would be covered under Medicaid in the US. Our neighbour was a Vietnam Vet and disabled in a car accident on his way home from tour. He was able to decline VA care and is supported through social security. They pay for an awful lot and his care is provided by medicaid. He works full time and they even pay for a mobility van to drive him around.

We Americans can be odd.

I have a friend with a chronic illness that prevents her from working. She would easily qualify for social security benefits or a state program to help with her debilitating health costs, but feels that to accept money from the government is failure. I'm not sure what she thinks she had been paying into all those years leading up to her illness.

Want2b, I was not saying he wouldn't get healthcare in the US. My comment was about the scaremongering and horrors of socialized medicine - like alleged death panels of NHS, that according to the US magazine would have killed S.H if he was born in the UK. (Which he, in fact, was)

Sorry Hazle I misread your post.

There are a lot of those articles and they do annoy me. The NHS was never great for me and going private in the UK is more expensive than the US. I will say that the NHS does a good job in an emergency. In my case the issues were with the provision of care for lesser illnesses.

id rather have my treatment from second in command every time if we all have access to the same.

it is disgusting that any "rich country" can not allow people treatment or bankrupt them if they cannt afford treatment.
The US is not a rich country, it is poor in morals and common decency and i would happily pay to ensure i never have to visit it.

When I was training as a nurse we learnt that it was a myth that USA had such a good healthcare system.
It is a bit out of date, but the WHO used to compile a table of the worlds healthcare systems, and USA was no where near the top, UK was 18th.
WHO table.

Natasha We are in NYC area so our premiums are very high. If you are in the South the premiums are much lower but yes they won't change the premium level so eventually we will all be taxed.

Do note that the article says that it is a tax on health insurance companies. In our case the whole cost of the tax is being passed on to the user. I will be able to vote at the next election and I am hoping that Mike Bloomberg runs. I find Obamacare sums up Obama's run in office. He had an opportunity to reform healthcare and screwed it up. He should have let Hilary push through the reform but instead he pandered to big business (lawyers and pharm companies) and their lobby groups.

FWIW - I do not like Hilary but I do respect her. She pushed through medicaid and reform in the early 90s that did benefit everyone. It is because of her that all women get prenatal and hospital care (which includes an epidural on demand) 48 hours after a vaginal delivery and 4 days after a CS in a hospital no matter what your income or nationality. She also removed the need to have insurance for ER care.

little You have incorrect information. Once you reach a certain threshold Medicare steps in and covers the cost. The issue with Medicare is that they take such a long time to pay. I audited a hospital this year and I was shocked that their AR over 6 months was all medicare payments. The management said it took Medicare about 12-18 months to make payment. When I asked why the hold up they said that they do it because they can. They also told me that doctors are not allowed to withhold care if the patient qualifies for medicare.

really? well there are a whole lot of people in the us in extreme pain or sick receiving no medical help, if you know different please help these people.

want2be- what do you mean takes ages to make payment?

So if you have x problem, you go to drs they say you need x do you then have to wait for them to pay before you have the treatment?
or do you just get the treatment right away and then leave them to chase for the bill/or talk to each other to get it paid

Little It is the latter. They must treat you and bill medicare. The issue is that when Medicare takes to long to pay the hospital has to pay their bills. This increases the cost of providing care to everyone. If the insurance companies can pay within a week of a visit I don't see why Medicare can't pay within 30-45 days or so.

We try to help as much as we can but some people don't want to be helped. There is an odd sense of pride where people don't want to place a burden on the state or accept charity. We support 3 medical chairities and two have said the hardest part is getting people to accept help. This is a culture I just don't get.

Smellsliketeenstrop I think I know what you mean
I've been trying to find an article on something I read a while ago. It was enough to make me never complain about the NHS again. I don't believe a single UK person has ever had to travel hundreds of miles, sleep in their car overnight and all for the chance to get treated by a doctor, for free. There is a charity in the USA that sets up healthcare fairs and they attract thousands of people. It's like something you would read about happening in certain African countries during a famine, or any other place following a natural disaster. But no, this is happening in the richest country in the world, and it's just normal people going to it - not scared people fleeing from disaster.

They have a free medical and dental fair twice a year not too far from us, it used to be called Su Salud, it used to be aimed at hispanic farm workers but not anymore, it's filled with families queuing overnight for a spot.
www.hispanicprblog.com/hispanicmulticultural-pr-briefs/cvspharmacy-renews-a-su-salud-hispanic-health-fairs-program-with-plans-for-800-events-in-2010.html This link is a bit old but it is even bigger now

Just want to add that Lionel Shriver's latest book "So Much For That"is an excellent example of how US healthcare works & what it means to have to stay in a crap job just for the helathcare insurance alone. I'd recommend it & all I can say is Thank God for our NHS.

healthcare insurance!

Heres a news report on it Smellslikeateenstrop
sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/03/22/free-medical-clinic-oakland/

I was in the USA in late 2009 when all of this was extremely hot topic, there were heated discussion at my family Xmas gathering & then I got dragged into it because I live in Britain. I had to say that I liked the NHS very much but what Obama had achieved didn't look much like the NHS.

The impression is that it will be very slow, very bureaucratic, with only the most urgent medical cases being treated & everyone having to wait forever. Aunt1 had skin cancer which removed a big chunk from her nose; she had to around in public for months with a large bandage on nose to avoid embarrassment before she finally got repair plastic surgery (Medicare). With private care she would have treatment much sooner, & the perception is that with Obamacare she'd die before they got around to it. Aunt2 was literally ranting about how unfair that would have been on Aunt1. I don't know all of Aunt2's politics, but would have put her down as fairly "liberal" in most respects.

Obamacare is very bureaucratic; lotsa forms to fill in as part of getting your treatment. Limited facilities (hospitals) which may be far away & remove all illusion of choice in who treats you. US private health care packages generally aren't much better wrt forms & travel distances, but there's a perception that people have more choice with them, at least.

There's a strong perception that the government is useless at running most things so for God's sake don't let them take over medicine, too.

So it isn't all "I'm all right, Jack" bias. Ironically, half the reason Obamacare is somewhat rubbish (compared to NHS, at least) is because of the compromises Obama had to make to get it thru Congress at all (ironically).

Of course there were ridiculous & extremist but influential claims made then, too, from extremist media (Fox). Like how Stephen Hawking would be dead. You cannot begin to fathom how much my relatives HATE Fox TV. They boycott Simpsons stuff as a result, & I often wonder why that boycott hasn't spread to Britain.

This is somewhat off track, however.....I had used the NHS very little until I became seriously ill whilst 20 weeks pregnant age 32 and I have to say, the standard of care was fantastic. It seemed no expense was spared seeing consultants, doctors, nurses, having an MRI etc. I always think how grateful I am to live in this country that I could have such a fantastic standard of care when I needed it without worrying out the costs or getting into debt.

Of course, insurance may have covered it in the States, although it was a pre-existing condition exacerbated by pregnancy so maybe not.

The NHS is not perfect by any means but thank goodness we have it.

"When I was training as a nurse we learnt that it was a myth that USA had such a good healthcare system.
It is a bit out of date, but the WHO used to compile a table of the worlds healthcare systems, and USA was no where near the top, UK was 18th."

The UK health system is rated much higher than the current US system internationally. I think the US system is utterly cruel and uncivilised. An American friend's mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. She was however offered an operation to remove the tumour which her doctors advised could extend her life by up to 2 years. This wasn't covered by her health insurance and she decided not to have the op because she was worried her husband could lose their home. She died a few weeks later...

I'm far to lazy to work out how to do a link from an I-pad but for those of you who are interested, there's a thread running on the something awful (don't be put off by the name!) forums called 'just what happens if obamacare is repealed?'.

It's very interesting to get an American perspective. Bare in mind the demographic of the forum is college age to early thirites, it's a good insight into the generation coming up.

Lopopo, one of the articles linked in the thread I just mentioned is to the new Yorker, called Letting Go which talks about the failings within the American system to prepare patients or clinicians for initiating pallative care.

What I took from the article is that the expectation of being a leading research country and having high standards of care available means that preparing people for the inevitable is something that is severely lacking.

I'm certainly not saying the uk is perfect when it comes to palliative care, but without the customer is always right attitude we certainly seem to foster realistic expectations.

I understand abstractly that this is happening in my country, and yet...I do not know anyone who has gone bankrupt or been turned away or died from not receiving treatment or been denied a healthy finger. Anyone. And literally everyone I know IRL is American. (Well, I know a Welshman and a Canadian or two if you want to split hairs.) So it's a bit hard to see it IYKWIM.