to wonder why any American's are against Obamacare?

[lowfatiscrap12]

Please, if you're an American, or if you're not American, tell me.
It's driving me insane.
What's wrong with proper healthcare for everyone?
I've got a few American's on Facebook, who happen to live in trailers, so not wealthy people, and you'd imagine they'd be more supportive of Obamacare than anyone.
I don't get it.
What's the problem?
Why would anyone want to keep the current system where one illness can bankrupt a family?

I think America is a massively rich country, economically, and in terms of resources and the sheer mass of talent in the population.

Fund a fair and free Health service through taxation.

Has anyone seen this 1948 cartoon explanation of how the NHS will work

I don't think there is any concept in other countries of just how much money the NHS saves in having large scale clinical guidance like NICE guidelines, etc. We know treatment across the country is fairly standard and of good quality. In countries like the US where medicine is private the drug costs are higher and doctors often prescribe more too.

I think there's a lot of lies being peddled as well about our "socialised medicine" which is what they call our NHS. Lies like we have death boards which decide who lives & who dies.

That said, my health is something I'd rather a board of doctors decided on based on my needs rather than an insurance company whose adjuster is paid by how much money he saves as in America.

It's basically about choice for them. They instinctively dislike anything which is mandatory.

It's also about the haves not wanting to share with the have-nots. Those with great company schemes don't want to lose their plans and have to share/queue with the unwashed masses.

I find my views pretty right wing in the UK but even I think health is better for all if we have a nationalised service.

Lastly I think Obamacare is a well meaning but ultimately political fudge. It's trying to nationalise healthcare in a politically acceptable way. A bit like how we are trying to privatise bits of our NHS. What ends up happening is you get the worst of both worlds.

What the USA desperately needs is nationalised healthcare (or at least statewide) funded by taxation. People can still be free to go private, a bit like our BUPA. But it's political suicide over there thanks to the power of the various vested interests. Even Obama who started his presidency with about as much goodwill as anyone will ever get struggled to get this through.

47to31in7days - I agree.

There are massive generalisattions made when dicussing the NHS. It's wrong to assume everyone thinks it's fantastic and supports a socialised system.

I would like to see reforms to the NHS with regard to funding through taxation; definitely not complete privatisation, but certainly some moving away from total government control.

I really don't understand it either. I have to admit to just scrolling down and saying la la la, whenever reading forums and and an American starts bleating on about socialism this and communism that. The propaganda is so strong that a large majority of US views I read seem to subscribe absolutely ANYTHING they don't agree with to some kind of socialism/communism even frankly absurd things.

Watching something like Great Ormond Street, the recent BBC documentary series, gives you a good comparison. So many children who require very expensive and prolonged care, the baby who was on a ventilator for the first year of her life, with no end in sight, I shudder to think what would happen to her in a system where your ability to pay is crucial. She must have cost the NHS a crap load of money, would any sane person begrudge her care, I doubt it."

I have seen the Liverpool Care Pathway, which is basically only applied to dying people as "death panels" . Because you know denying food to people in a coma basically is engineering their death, no matter that the pathway offers drugs and fluids etc to provide a comfortable and dignified end.

Ability to pay is crucial with the NHS, it's just that it's the countries ability to pay.

The thing is Niceguy2 that the NICE guidelines do decide if people live or die, by refusing to fund medicine that will possibly keep people alive. Sure those treatments are not efficient (too many people die or too many people get other side effects or the extra time surviving is not long enough, or the side effects too severe or whatever their reason for not allowing it) but they could keep some people alive who would otherwise die.

I think NICE is a great idea, and many of the US insurance companies do similar of course by deciding what they cover, but it's now wholly misreprestantive to describe it that way.

Well, part of the issue is that it's only been a few hundred years since we gave the big "EFF YOU AND YOUR DAMN TEA TOO" to the UK. :o

The founding fathers that most Americans are taught to revere believed in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not happiness handed to you on a plate. There was to be no king or queen, no all powerful government. A phrase bandied about often is "a government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything away" .

No, we do not necessarily and whole-heartedly trust our government. I don't that's a terrible thing; Hitler was an appointed member of government FFs!

As far as socialism/communism being seen as an evil thing: I don't know about the rest of the country, but the area I grew up in was heavily settled by Finnish immigrants. Most of our older family members still tell stories about great grandfathers or uncles or whatever who, many many years ago, went to build socialism in the Soviet Union and were murdered in Stalin's Purges.

That being said, I like, support, and voted for Obama. I think the health system we've got is terrible and definitely needs an overhaul, but I'm not utterly convinced that Obamacare is absolutely bang on in all respects.

Do I have health insurance? No. Have I ever been turned away and not been treated? Never. Doctors have sent me home with free sample bottles of pills, only charged me for tests and not office visits, examined me at the same time as my son who does have insurance, etc, anything to keep my costs down. The state paid for my son's birth, including epidural, and all my prenatal appointments. What they didn't pick up, the Catholic hospital where I gave birth did.

Do I think everyone should have access to some sort of health insurance? Of course I do. Do I think that people should be forced to buy insurance? Absolutely not. To me that feels the same as governments around the world saying that their citizens cannot homeschool their own children if they choose to- a fucking outrage.

As far as Great Ormond Street goes, we have St Jude's, a pediatric research hospital which accepts all seriously ill children, regardless of insurance. It also helped the survival rate for acute lymphoblastic leukemia go from 4% to 94% in 50 years.

I live in the US, and I can't understand why people here are so against single payer health care either! And this idea of being forced to pay for it, well, we're already forced to pay for Medicare (health ins when you retire) so why is this different? Im really hoping this will lead to a more NHS type system. While many states do cover the very poor and children (even if their parents are covered) too many people are going without. One of the big cuases of death in my state is endocarditis, which is usually caused by tooth absceses here.

that to me is inexcusabe, but no one can afford the dentist, even if the GP will give you free drugs, no dentist will do a free teeth cleaning.

we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces, if you ask me.

that being said, a lot of people where I live and that I know do support universal health care, some ust sturggle with the myth that there are millions upon millions of American's who are getting 60k a year in benefits and living high on the hog and not paying taxes. Which just isn't true, but no one can puncture that myth becuae Fox News just keeps drilling on it.

And ironically, the people who are so against universal helath care also seem to be the same people who insist that aborntion is illegal. they only seem to love fetuses, not children or other humans. It's sad, really...

Have I ever been turned away and not been treated? Never. Doctors have sent me home with free sample bottles of pills, only charged me for tests and not office visits, examined me at the same time as my son who does have insurance, etc, anything to keep my costs down.

And you are happy with that? A Dr should be giving you the most appropriate treatment, not keeping costs down.

I don't think you can really compare Stalin's Russia to socialism in all it's forms in the Europe of today, he was a dictator, comparing Stalin's Russia to Socialism in the UK and many European countries is like comparing apples to oranges, although lets face it we aren't far behind you in sacrificing people to profits profits profits (for the rich anyway).

It's a complete fallacy that you have freedom in the USA, you don't need a king, corporate interests have gotten there for you, corporate friggin profits are king. Not only in the USA here as well.

Can't possibly ask huge corporations to accept less profits for the good of human kind, that would be wrong, shareholders blah blah fucking blah.

It is amazing that there are so many misconceptions here about American healthcare. Let me start by saying that I think most people, including myself, are opposed to obamacare because our cover is 250% more expensive today than when he was elected and issues such as people starting law suits against doctors and hospitals for was not addressed.

The first misconception is the cost of healthcare here. Due to some law the Dr's charge a huge amount and the insurance company comes back and say they will pay X amount - normally 10% of the bill. The issue is that they have bill everyone the same amount so people without health insurance often think they need to pay the whole amount. This isn't true but because of the stupid laws around charging the same price for everything a lot of people without health insurance get stuck with a huge bill. Obamacare should have fixed this but didn't.

My CS last year cost $10K of which we paid $2K. Considering DH's employer now pays $22K a year for our health insurance I am pissed off that our copay for the emergency room has gone from $50 to 30% of treatment received unless admitted. Urgent Care is the same and I was shocked to learn after we had DD that we were 100% liable for the cost of a visit to the emergency room if the visit wasn't deemed necessary. We don't pay for preventative care now but our copay to see the doctor for a sick visit is $50 for us and $30 for DD. So far this year we have dropped $200 in copays. Before Obamacare came out we paid $10 for a Dr visit so we would have spent considerably less. I am going to the obn tomorrow for my first pregnancy appointment and it will cost me $50. Two years ago this would have been free.

What I don't like about Obamacare is that they have not fixed the reasons that cause healthcare to be expensive in the first place - health insurance and drug costs. A family friend is an oncologist and runs her own practice with 4 doctors under her. She has been sued by patients for all sort of reasons. The best was a husband who sued her because his wife died of a rare type of cancer that had a 5% chance of survival. The doctor managed to keep the woman alive with a good standard of life for 2 years and didn't charge for most of her treatment as she didn't want to burden the family. Her insurance is $5 million per year for herself alone.

Drug costs are another huge burden on the system. It is a joke that DH's medication can cost as little as $6 a month in some places outside of the US yet if we buy it through insurance we are charged $86/month. The US is funding the world when it comes to drugs and it has to stop. Cut out the ambulance chasers, stop drug companies from over charging and doctors will be able to charge less.

Let me also add that as of this year we will be taxed on our healthcare because it is over the threshold. I do not think this is fair. Our insurance has gone up to pay for those who don't have insurance. We then get taxed again.... Screw you Obama.....

Phew that was a long post. This is a flavour of the reasons why Americans are pissed with Obama. Personally I hope Mike Bloomberg runs for president. He will have us paying based on our BMI!

mrsjohn I wasn't comparing Stalin to the forms of socialism in Europe today! I meant only that where I grew up, it's a dirty word, and most people have a knee jerk reaction to it. :)

Because all it take to scare average Americans off something is to mention the word 'socialism' and that's the end of any sensible debate. The old 'reds under the beds' fear is still burning strong here and there is huge paranoia about government involvement in anything.

Also, there are big lobby groups that have a vested interest in keeping the dysfunctional US healthcare system as it is so they can keep raking in the profits.

Most Americans I've spoken to about it, including a relative who is on the board of a city hospital here, have insisted that there's nothing wrong with the healthcare system and anyone who is uninsured is choosing that status out of irresponsibility or just having different priorities. Hospital ER departments are obliged to treat everyone and are not allowed to ask patients about their insurance status so most Americans seem to think that covers everyone. I did ask what happens when someone is treated in ER and then doesn't have the money or insurance to pay for it and they said hospitals have bad debt funds that cover this. I've read myself though in the NY Times etc that many hospitals are actually going out of business because of this issue.

I think it's one of these culturally specific issues, like the prevalence of teenage single mothers in the UK, that is hard to understand from the outside.

The US is funding the world when it comes to drugs and it has to stop.

Could yo explain what you mean?

Why are you blaming Obama for these problems, Want2beSupermum?

These are all issues that were inherent in the US healthcare system before Obama was ever in office. Americans do pay too much for drugs (my insurance only covers brand name drugs so I end up paying $20 per month for a brand name pill. To buy the generic upfront without insurance would be $150 per month however, which is nonsense because the pill is well out of patent and generics are cheap as chips) and insurance companies are upping co-pays etc all the time. Suits for malpractice are also out of control, granted.

ALl of these are long-standing issues in the US healthcare system though. You can blame Obama for not taking sufficient action to solve them but why blame him for their existence?? Sounds like you are just looking for someone to blame rather than thinking your opinions through.

I don't despise people on welfare at all! Not much use for slackers though, jalen. :) But they aren't the same thing.

But Cheerful, you have to admit that for many Americans (middle class anyway) welfare = slacker.

Perhaps, but my friends and family are either very liberal or very religious and believe deeply in helping the poor and ill, so that's not really my experience.