to wonder why any American's are against Obamacare?

[lowfatiscrap12]

Please, if you're an American, or if you're not American, tell me.
It's driving me insane.
What's wrong with proper healthcare for everyone?
I've got a few American's on Facebook, who happen to live in trailers, so not wealthy people, and you'd imagine they'd be more supportive of Obamacare than anyone.
I don't get it.
What's the problem?
Why would anyone want to keep the current system where one illness can bankrupt a family?

It is really not all of them believe me. Just the republicans. Most people I come across think that there should be healthcare for all. Although they are very used to paying for it here, it strips so many families of so much cash. I have lived here almost 2 years, meet the odd obama care hater, but in the whole people tend to take a more balanced view than is portrayed on the news.

On another note, a lot more philanthropy exists here in the US, out of necessity since government assistance might not be available. There are the examples of hospitals that treat for no charge or minimize costs as Cheerful Yank says but also individual efforts. I get heartbreaking messages all the time as part of a local network I'm in asking for donations or advertising yard sales to try and raise funds for someone's medical bills, people asking if anyone has spare medication e.g. EPI-pens going that they could use etc.

It's sad to see and kind of Dickensian as this is how most people handled healthcare costs before the advent of big state-run systems in the 20th century. You borrowed, you begged, doctors were kind and somehow you survived. I don't think that's good enough in the 21st century in one of the richest countries in the world, however.

Hmmm. If you are used to private health care the NHS looks pretty third world.
You can be expected to wait for 4 hours in A/E for example in any UK hospital. Just unacceptable imo ---- maybe, just maybe there should be more staff on.
And wards have too few nurses and geriatric care is not good.
If you are referred to a skin specialist, for example, in the US you see a reputable skin specialist. Not his trainee or registrar. Or a 'specialist' nurse.

If you are used to the best what we have is pretty naff.

Of course the HHS isn't as pod as expensive private care. Nits not either/or.

Lots of people in uk have private health insurance which they can utilise if needed, usually when the HHS wait for a treatment is too long for them.

FFS

HHS is nhs
Pod is good
Nits is its

I used to read a forum about bowel conditions (in that camp myself) in which plenty of Americans posted. Some of them used to talk about how long they could make a colostomy/ileostomy bag last for to keep the costs down because they were paying for them, so the more they used, the more they paid. One person boasted that they could keep theirs on for 7 days... Meanwhile, in the UK it would be anticipated that you would change the bag every day or every other day and you would be supplied accordingly. Even if you paid for your presciptions, then, you could buy a 1 year prescription certificate and have as many bags as you felt you needed - current cost of such a certificate = £104.

The way the American patients were being pushed to behave was IMO degrading for them. I know which approach seems 'third world'.

Wow.

Ihave nothing to add, but have read through this thread as it is so interesting.

I have family in the USA, and didn't understand when they said they were a bit broke as had been having to have medical treatments. I just assumed that it was all covered under their insurances.

I think I will stick to the NHS thank you very much. In general the treatment we recieve in the UK under the NHS is pretty good. Obviously there are the bad stories, but people are quick to complain, not so quick to compliment.

We lived in the US for 7 years (just got back)

I think the 'service' one gets in the US, far outstrips the UK...its not enough however.

My DH oversaw some cleaning ladies that also worked on his shift, they worked their fingers to the bone -for nothing! They didn't have healthcare coverage and couldn't afford to visit the doctor. There were also men working past the age of retirement to fund their wives insurance ( just so they could see the doctor) This is just the tip of the ice-burg.

A few Americans have posted pointing out the problems with Obamacare, all quite reasonable objections, which is that they leave some of the worst elements of the system in place. The trouble is, there was no way Obama was going to be able to do the right thing, which would be something akin to the NHS - far too much opposition from powerful sources. So he came up with a fudge.

Much in the same way that North Koreans are indoctrinated to believe that they live in the best country in the world, with the most benevolent system of government, I think Americans are utterly brainwashed about their own system. It's impossible to have a reasoned argument because they come out with things like "It's not what the Founding Fathers wanted" or "But the Constitution says..." I don't imagine there's a single US politician who dares to say, "But what if the Founding Fathers were wrong? What if the Constitution was suitable for the country 200 years ago but is out of date now?" It would be like admitting to enjoying sex with dogs.

The fear of "socialised medicine" is part of this. They have a socialised education system. A socialised armed forces. A socialised programme for funding libraries and building roads. There are some things it just makes sense to provide at government level. But a lot of Americans just can't see this.

As someone has said, Sicko by Michael More is a fascinating watch. There was an American lumberjack on there who had cut off two fingers at work, both fingers were kept on ice and well preserved, brought in with the guy and salvageable. Because he could only AFFORD to have ONE finger put back on, he chose his ring finger over his middle finger so he could continue to wear his wedding ring.

They discarded his other salvageable finger, presumably into a bin

Now, say what you want about the NHS but never, ever would any of the doctors or surgeons I have ever worked with would even consider deliberately leaving someone disabled and not do everything they can to return someone to as functional a state as possible.

They have have swanky private rooms, but what kind of healthcare professional would disregard a healthy finger, leaving someone who relied on the dexterity of his hands to make a living without a finger?

Not one you'd find in the NHS, that's for sure. So the Americans can keep their 'better than the rest' attitude, I know that I, for one, much prefer our free at point of access healthcare system, where people get equal treatment regardless of their ability to pay.

Now we just need to rid ourselves of 'Dave' and our glorious NHS might just stand a chance...

This is really interesting, I have learned loads from this thread.

It seems to me that it would be extremely difficult for any government to find a system of healthcare that everyone would be happy with. So they have to go with what the majority want even though that will leave some people in a terrible situation. We also will all have different opinions on this depending on our own health needs, and experiences of the NHS.

Personally, I think from the sounds of it my family would be much better off under the US system, but then that is because none of us have ever needed life saving treatment and the treatment my family has needed has been spectacularly sub standard on the NHS and we have been forced to pay privately as well as having to pay the high tax. At least in the US some of our costs would have been covered by employers and treatment would have been given in a reasonable amount of time by a decent doctor, not a mixture of different trainees. The NHS is great in some areas, really truly fantastic. But in others it is dire. Patients left to dehydrate, patients left on waiting lists for operations with severely life limiting conditions etc.

If anyone thinks that cost doesn't come into decisions that are made by NHS doctors then they are very much mistaken. And even in instances where cost isn't a factor, the sheer demand for services in hospitals that can't cope can have a drastic impact on the outcome of eventual treatment.

I can understand why Americans want to hold on to their system, but I still don't think I would choose it.

There's the fear of anything that even smells remotely of socialism, but there's also a belief that healthcare is a privilege, not a right. If you're poor, just like you can't afford brand new cars, big houses and holidays abroad and should limit your expectations accordingly, likewise, you can't afford healthcare and if that results in your early death from illnesses that are easily treated or managed then so be it. The rich have 'earned' the right to have good health and long life, the poor haven't.

I've been trying to find an article on something I read a while ago. It was enough to make me never complain about the NHS again. I don't believe a single UK person has ever had to travel hundreds of miles, sleep in their car overnight and all for the chance to get treated by a doctor, for free. There is a charity in the USA that sets up healthcare fairs and they attract thousands of people. It's like something you would read about happening in certain African countries during a famine, or any other place following a natural disaster. But no, this is happening in the richest country in the world, and it's just normal people going to it - not scared people fleeing from disaster.

Perhaps some Americans here know the charity I'm talking about, I can't for the life of me remember its name.

MummytoKatie - "I don't get it at all. What I find most confusing of all is all the people in the US who whilst anti healthcare also want to ban abortion and investigate miscarriages and still births as possible homicides because "life is sacred".

Life until it is born anyway......"

Wow, nothing like generalising a whole nation . America isn't homogenous you know. Lots of people, lots of different opinions.

This has been a very interesting thread to read! I asked my DP what he thought about Americas healthcare. He said its a matter of attitude. They don't like looking out for the next chap.

Yes the nhs is not perfect, I work for them! However without it, I would an orphan.

It's total nonsense about death panels. I have no idea where that idea came from.
Evil

We've (americans) have been told since day one we live inn the greatest nation so it goes with out saying that our health care is the greatest. It's 37 out of 191 countries according to the WHO. Although at least we party the most for it out of any country . I don't really get that obamacare is really all that useful though as the insurance copanies are still going to try abd make money and the hospitals will still charge them 50 bucks for aspirin because they can. I feel like this just forces joe schmo into the shit health care rather than fixing the shit health care

Although I don't agree with most of the American system, there are many wonderful positives within.

In the state we lived all children received free healthcare, if your income was below a certain level. That level was very generous.

The hospital that I had my DD in, regularly treats patients for free. They relied on donations from well off folk.

orwellian is right, there are so many differing opinions and help, depending on the state. I am happy to be back under the NHS, but I'll miss some of the kindly souls that work in healthcare in the US.

Party? we pay

I don't know if someone's said this but here's my view. I'm a former American and have live in the UK for 10 years.

I think it basically comes down to money. The tax burden in the US is comparable to here, but they have to pay health insurance premiums on top of that. Those the already have health care don't want their taxes raised to pay for coverage for people who either don't work, or work low paid jobs. It's similar to the benefits debate over here. It also seems like "socialism" which is almost as bad as a pact with Satan for most of them.

I think the thing about the NHS is, you can support the system in principle while accepting it sometimes falls short of the ideal. I have often been pissed off with individual doctors and nurses who have been uncaring/incompetent/unable to diagnose anything beyond a cold. But I would still rather have the NHS with its imperfections than the US system. And I know people who have had fantastic care on the NHS.

Evil, I remember the amusing article from before the Obamacare, where a magazine claimed that Uk system is horrible and has death panels that will kill grandmas and others not considered useful enough. Editorial said ?People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn?t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless,?

Stephen Hawking, being British, was at the time of the article actually in the hospital and being treated by NHS.

I have just watched the Michael Moore documentary and feel genuinely shocked at what US citizens have to put up with. I would have our NHS everytime over a private room and a dinner menu. Actually I got a private room both times when having my DSs so maybe it's just the food.