to wonder why any American's are against Obamacare?

[lowfatiscrap12]

Please, if you're an American, or if you're not American, tell me.
It's driving me insane.
What's wrong with proper healthcare for everyone?
I've got a few American's on Facebook, who happen to live in trailers, so not wealthy people, and you'd imagine they'd be more supportive of Obamacare than anyone.
I don't get it.
What's the problem?
Why would anyone want to keep the current system where one illness can bankrupt a family?

And it's not widely known/understood that just because you have the Obamacare doesn't mean you cannot go 'private'... but I think anyone who is against it nutterbutter myself as I think for most people it will mean a much better safety net then they have right now...

The other fact is that even if you paid the whole cost yourself, often private health care in the UK is cheaper than in the US. Eg. My private crowns on my teeth were a tenth what my DH's Boss (at the time) paid in the US.

Not everyone in the US is anti-Obama, it just seems like that sometimes.

we are currently contemplating a move to the US and we find the healthcare system very odd.

All DP's colleagues and American friends are anti anything like this. They feel it is wrong to pay for other people. So many believe everyone has the same opportunities so therefore if they have not got good jobs with healthcare that's their poor choices/laziness.

They have a big sense of individual responsibility whereas we have more of a sense of unfairness through our class system, so therefore understand some people need more help.

The wealthy in this country have historically felt a responsibility to benevolence as part of their duty as their wealth was inherited. Whereas a lot of those who feel they have 'earned' their wealth can have the attitude 'well i did it so why can't they'.

That's the impression i get from our discussions anyway.

In Britain, we have a feeling of collective responsibility (which we sometimes use as a stick to beat so-called "benefit scroungers"). In the US, it's all about individual responsibility, making it on your own.

Which is all well and good, if you have your parents' cash with which to make it on your own. Bit less easy if you are skint.

It is weird. One of my fairly bright American friends had PROM at 26 weeks - held on in hospital until 34 weeks, then tons of NICU time. The bill was unsurprisingly in excess of half a million dollars. They didn't have decent insurance and make a pittance. Most of their paycheque for the rest of their lives is now taken up paying that bill so their family of five can barely survive.

Yet she still, very proudly and frequently, says she thinks this is the right system and does not want any form of socialised healthcare. I.. just don't get it.

I love the NHS. I think in the US people get subjected to unnecessary tests because it makes money for the hospitals. If you see the film "The Business of Being Born" you realise that money doesn't necessary mean good care.

If a child who is in care gets cancer they get treatment. No one has to worry about bankcrupy if they get hit by a bus. Children do not die of treatable diseases because their parents cannot afford the doctor.

There's a long running debate on a primarily American forum that I lurk on, and one of the really interesting points that has been bought up is how much support private healthcare has from the sections of society that would most benefit.

The American dream is deeply ingrained in their culture, the standard belief been that if you work hard enough you should never need to rely on the government, there's absolutely no need to behave like commies!

I can't remember the article, but a psychologist suggested that most people who are living on the breadline don't identify as poor but as rich and temporarily struggling.

The pharmacy and insurance companies have no reason to discourage this belief, neither do the politicians heavily invested in their profits.

I always thought it was to do with the American Dream.

Better off people don't want to pay more - they can afford health care or have jobs with decent cover in place and the usual can't imagine being in any other position kicks in.

Those who are worse off, suffer through lack of decent coverage, but don't want universal healthcare to be brought in because the American Dream concept gives people hope and the belief that they will one day be one of the rich people and don't want to have to pay more in tax when they are.

The Obamacare idea isn't great, but it is the best that stands any chance of getting through American legislation.

It really is tragic, the affect that Republican propaganda about the evils of 'socialism' in conjunction with American Dream ideals has had on the American people.

x posts with Bestb411PM

I do not know anything about the American healthcare system, what happens if someone has a prolonged serious mental illness - what sort of care can they expect to receive if they are unable to work as a result?

I've been here a long time and there is a lot of the "I'm alright Jack sod the rest of you" attitude when people have a good job healthcare and are doing well. Many don't want any money they pay out to go towards the care of anyone else, and believe all the claptrap that was put about about death panels in the UK and that is what would happen here. Also they seem to think any kind of Obama care is Socialism
Our healthcare is paid 100% by the Union he works for and we pay a % for each doctor visit. Once we have paid out a set amount in bills the insurance pays 100% the rest of the year, it's an excellent plan for us, we've never had anything so good before. Most people don't have anything this good.
It costs Dh's company about $20,000 a year to provide this for us, and they pay this for all the workers families. People wonder whats going on costs are way out of control.
With Obama care we can keep our kids on this plan till they are 26 years old, so all the way through college and while they would find work. It used to be once they turn 18 they got dumped, and only those in full time education were covered.

I do not know anything about the American healthcare system, what happens if someone has a prolonged serious mental illness - what sort of care can they expect to receive if they are unable to work as a result?
It sucks, they can lose everthing and burn through any savings they have. More bankruptcies are due to medical bills than anything else.

why is it different to food or housing?
Because although there can be a huge range in food and housing needs and wants, from living off rice and brand in a bedsit to eating in Michelin starred restaurant and living in a mansion, this is not comparable to the differences in healthcare that people need. Ffs a prem baby, chronic health condition like the poster with ulcerative colitis, terminal cancers... treatment for these should be available to all. It is totally luck or lack of it whether you need treatment for these things. Not something you earn or can choose to do something about.

It sucks, they can lose everthing and burn through any savings they have. More bankruptcies are due to medical bills than anything else.

What happens then? When they can't pay anymore?

Sorry for my ignorance, can anyone explain to me what happens to families/people who have no healthcare what so ever, if they are unfortunate enough to have a serious health problem ie cancer?

Op I don't understand it either, surely the health of the population benefits everyone in the long run?
I am absurdly proud of the NHS when I talk to people from other countries.

I think the problem is that most poor Americans are Republicans. Republicans love their guns and their bibles and hate the idea of socialism or big government. Even though Obamacare would benefit the poor the most, they are so indoctrinated against Obama by the Republican ideology (which, without question, favours the rich) that they can't see reason.

They watch Fox News and it spreads nothing but fear and lies. Obama recently said in a speech that Americans should move away from their cell phones and talk in person. Fox News reported it as "Obama is trying to regulate communications"!!!! Fear, fear...... Keep them scared with their bibles, their guns and their outrageous policies on birth control. It's madness!

There was a documentary on (maybe Panorama) about people with no money in America.

One man had horrible stomach problems, I think ulcerative colitis, which he was going to die from if he didn't get sorted. He was seeing these voluntary doctors who would set up surgery to treat people who had no insurance - they told him he needed surgery. It was going to cost thousands and he simply didn't have the money.

So basically, he was just going to die.

I really can't believe that people WANT that system. It's terrifying.

One of my American friends explained that it was a real motivator in getting people to work hard and hold onto a job. But I think it's awful. You shouldn't work because you're SCARED of DYING otherwise.

Isn't it because those who cannot afford healthcare in the US do not have a voice whereas those that can do?

When I lived in the US it really made me appreciate how lucky we are to have a healthcare system that is available to all regardless of means. It is something very special that a lot of people don't appreciate as they never experience any other healthcare system.

If they cannot afford to pay then they rely on a very substandard welfare system. A friend of mine had her healthcare cover reduced following major surgery so her rehabilitation was in another hospital. It made the worst NHS A&E Saturday night look civilised. I wasn't prepared for how awful it was.

Here is that Panorama about poverty in America.

Real eye-opener, but don't watch if you're feeling down. There is some harrowing stuff.

Panorama

Sorry for my ignorance, can anyone explain to me what happens to families/people who have no healthcare what so ever, if they are unfortunate enough to have a serious health problem ie cancer?
They lose everything, get treated in emergency rooms where they get basic triage care and then get released and walk away from the bills or get free care if it's available and they can qualify from the hospital charities, if they are really lucky they can get on state medical cover before getting so bad they die (it takes a while to qualify people fall through the cracks and when you are homeless it's hard for the Social worker to return calls if she ever gets to your case) Many people just don't get treatment.
There are constantly tubs at the checkouts of store for collections to help someone local get treatment for something or other. They do car washes, spaghetti feeds, all kinds of things to raise funds for friends and family around here.

Op I don't understand it either, surely the health of the population benefits everyone in the long run?
I am absurdly proud of the NHS when I talk to people from other countries.
I totally agree, but the republicans have so many people snowed with their rubbish they are afraid of it.

A question from the ignorant here - what if you have no insurance and your child gets sick with something like cancer, will the current system treat the child?

You should watch Sicko, by Michael Moore a real eye opener.
topdocumentaryfilms.com/sicko/

Whoops
topdocumentaryfilms.com/sicko/

I think having to provide healthcare for employees and their families is a major drain on American companies and also an important factor in why some industries are still more heavily unionised than their counterparts in other western countries ( ironic if you are anti socialism).

My sister had a baby by c- section in the states, she had a mid- level healthcare package and had poorer care than I did having the same type of birth in Scotland and primary healthcare was also much poorer, no local GP , she had to travel miles to a hospital clinic for routine checks etc. and no nice midwife visits at home or health visitor support.

Ironically universal healthcare would help Americans be more entrepreneurial, starting your own business or even changing job or career must be very scary if it means losing your health plan.

Canadians must find it very annoying.

As far asi'm aware there are government sponsored health insurance schemes like medicare, it's got quite strict criteria, so only really becomes a option once you've bankrupted yourself or become too ill to work so have lost your insurance. Of course by then you've probably defaulted on a portion of your medical bills so hospitals will try to recoup that loss by putting up their prices. In theory that means society ends up paying twice over for someone's treatment.

It's a mental system for our point of view, insurance companies can refuse to pay for treatments after you've received them, and I believe there are some states where private insurance for maternity care just doesn't exist.

Add that to hire/fire at will employment, very little annual leave (I've seen figures of 5 days a year thrown about), maternity leave is practically none existent, the last thing I would want is my medical insurance reliant on my job.

I find America quite frightening for the average person.