To be fed up with my DD having to prop up the less able children

[endlesschatonthecarpet]

OK, I know I probably am being unreasonable and await a flaming! My daughter (in year 1) is very quick, very clever but not blessed with much patience! Because she is one of the top in the class she always seems to be paired with a talk partner who is finding the work more of a struggle. I completely understand that this can be useful sometimes, but it seems to happen every day and some days my DD comes hope very fed up and grumpy because she's had to "waste time". She gets what the task is once the teacher has done the initial set up and is keen to get going. This endless sitting on the carpet with whiteboards talking to another child who is not working at the same level is doing her head in! Now, I fully accept that the teacher has to consider the needs of all the children - not just my precious DD, but couldn't she at least sometimes just send the more able children off to get started while she does a bit more work with the others or pair up the bright children so they can really develop their ideas?

Obviously I've said to my DD that she needs to get on with whatever the teacher asks her to do and haven't given her any indication that I share her feelings about this practice but I do feel really frustrated on my daughter's behalf.
Anyone else feel the same or am I alone in my unreasonableness?

I think that grouping them in a way, be it "Higher ability" or "higher attainment" or "current higher attainment" does NOT work out well for bottom sets.

It does work out for many in the "Higher ability" set (old school called the HA table "Caterpillars" I think).

What I truly HATE, is that we are sold the line that all kids matter, it is not about being the best, and teachers saying: "I cannot tell you whether "Caterpillars" is HA or MA or LA Mrs Chandon, as that is not relevant", when the truth is that very early on teachers divide kids up in terms of ability. These kids will then deal with high or medium or low expectations from the teacher.

It seems so hypocritical to me! I hate it that we are told "apples" is just fine and just as good as "mandarins" when in their mind teachers have written of my DS1 already (he won't get a 4b anyway, so let's not bother and give an easy life. he can do spellings with the year below, or even 2 years below. let's ask him to learn only 5 words, if the rest learn 20 etc ) ...voice of bitter experience.

The fact is, they are 4 and 5 years old. The probably don't want to be paired up with some children who are teased for being a bit slow, or picked on, or have a dissability. I have seen it, on school trips, at school, in the class room, some children refusing to be paired up with other children who are not 'as good as them'. I've seen it with my son, who is very smart, but has a language dissorder and physical dissability. The brighter kids don't want to be paired up with him because of who is is and how he is. The push him aside in queues, they don't want to integrate him in their games, and the teacher has to handle this very carefully by encouraging to others to play with him and to team up with him. I hate to say this (again) but you should try to see it from the other perspective.

sorry, "written off" (non native speaker alert)

Oh come on. We could compare notes darling, but I'd win on this one, and anyone who has a child with a dissability would.

You really have to fight your own DCs' corner much of the time.

Having said that, my DD (7.6) took matters into her own hands recently and that has been far more effective than any kind of parental lobbying I could have done - the school has finally started taking notice of her (good, quiet, gets on with it sort of personality whose needs were not being served).

A teacher who was happy for a child to coast through school and thought the priority was pointless fucking tests that are only about the teacher and the school would make murderous.

Talk about missing the entire point of her job.

Lequeen

I agree with your post of 10:44:29 but your last post is -cheeky wink notwithstanding - ridiculous. Try having a child who struggles with reading and then talk about "not allowing them not to be a good reader". It's that kind of attitude which really puts people off.

Blueberry

I don't recognise the scenario you describe in your 10:56:25 post at all. My DD is "top table" bright, a massively advanced reader, excellent at maths and best friends with twins with SEN.

Clearly lequeen, you are, trying to win that is, if you want that desparatly for your child to be in the top reading group. Your attitude does make me smile, no child of mine will be behind at reading... I really wonder how it would feel to you to have a child with a dissability or a learning difficulty. Really, I do.

My DS2 (reception), who has a severe form of apraxia of speech, and has hypotonia, mainly affecting his face, as well as physical dyspraxia, gets excluded every day. Not just teased, but excluded, bright children don't want to play with him because of who he is. Are you incapable of reading and understanding that? Every day. During play and learning. Every single day. He is as bright as a button, and his reading and maths are within the top group, but other bright children exclude him, Don't want to hold his hand, don't want to play with him, push him out of the way.

One of the only way the brighter children will play with him is by teaming up, and having other small group activities, so that everyone gets a chance to know him and work /play with him. If you perceive that this kind of activity is detrimental to the learning of a brighter child, you really have a problem.

Blueberry

You last post is heartbreaking and I feel for you and your son.
And I think teaching resoect, tolerance, friendship, patience and understanding are vital.

I just also happen to think that high attainment DC should be given the chance to be stretched academically and learning tolerance for those with SEN should not trump that.

YANBU. Yes, social skills are important. But so is the ability to progress academically.

There are many schools, universities and jobs where everyone is clever. I was at independent school, usually top of the class, then went to Oxford where there were some truly incredibly clever people there. I now work in the City and am surrounded by people who have amazing academics and amazing intelligence. So, it's not always the case that people will have to live and work with people who aren't on their own level.

Blueberry an un MNty hug to you and your boy. Life can be so shit sometimes. I hope the competitive parents reading your post have at least some stirrings of empathy and work on encouraging kindness.

For sure, people tend not to work or live with a cognitive cross-section of society. I think it is vital for people to realise this but I am not at all sure that school is the right place to learn those sorts of lessons.

And why should a state school trump the needs of children with learning difficulties for those who are advanced, exactly? If everyone's needs are to be met, surely, encouraging children to work together for a few minutes every day, or every week, is not going to compromise learning for those who are academically more advanced. This is not happening every hour of every day, maybe what, 5-10 minutes a day and 30 minutes on a friday and everyone is taking turns in small groups encouraging social skills? Why would that compromise a child's more advanced abilities to ba catered for?

LeQ explains how it's necessary to try to game (the rather ridiculous) system IMO. She says she's gone in to push her child who might have been at the margins of the group below the top (re: reading). Chandon, that's how things are for us in a UK school abroad too. I see what you write about but am just opening my eyes to it.

Teachers divide the cohort into high, middle and low ability groups that are apparently flexible. But labels have been applied and they stick - as this thread shows.

I asked a few 'what ifs' recently. What if you had a child who started Y3 at a level 2b or 2a - what if they had the potential to be a 4c by Y3 end? I was told this wouldn't happen in real terms. Chances are if they put on a massive spurt they'd be working at the margins of a group or two below the top having already blasted expectations. I asked about one of mine at a level 3c for reading in Y2, why not 3b? as they could do all things that met the criteria but this was apparently only for 'exceptional children'. In other words the children whose parents had been gaming the system and pushing from the start. A late starter hasn't been stamped 'exceptional'. It's not the teacher's fault it's the system and classes are large.

One of mine is in a guided reading group below the top coping with an easier book than the top group. They are at the top of this group and stretched I am told. The thing is all this group work to a certain NC level, the group above are working to a 4c. If I am LeQ I'd be asking for a promotion. It's the children with the LeQ parents who game the system that have children that often exceed expectations. It all looks like a bit of farce from where I am sat, perhaps it's a reason that levels are on their way out (perhaps)?

to be catered for, that is!

I don't personally think that mixed ability schools cater to anyone's needs very well.

Blueberry
i think you may be missing my point.

I think all children should be allowed to reach their full potential and be treated with respect and tolerance.

Sounds to me like the OP's child is not being stretched academically, is getting bored and needs more stimulation. Hence she sees the 10 minutes of talk time with a partner as a waste and as propping up the less able.

This thread should be less about talk time with less able partners and more about how the OP can ensure her DC is being stretched.

It is very important children are stretched and challenged.

All the girls were at our school and the top kept a good pace with each other. But some very clever boys could have done with more. If not, when they are older, they can look for less positive ways to find challenges. Including more destructive ways.

It's funny, isn't it, how teachers are failing both the high ability children and the low ability children by giving the low ability children extra support and the high ability children a task that requires higher order thinking.

If only all our pupils were middle ability. Except we're usually failing them too, because we're focusing too much on the high ability children. Or the low ability children.

Might as well just give up trying, really.