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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

So David Cameron (we are in it together) really wants to fuck up our children then!

660 replies

belleMarie · 23/06/2012 23:14

How can anyone be taken in by this muppet? whilst him, Sam (and her £1000 pound frocks) and kiddies eat good, sleep good, shit good - we're basically screwed?

His hate for the poor/have-not is staggering and apart from a a couple of grunts here and there, this man is unstoppable.

Cameron to axe housing benefits for feckless under 25s as he declares war on welfare culture
Prime Minister gives exclusive interview to the MAIL ON SUNDAY
Reveals housing benefit will be scrapped for under 25s, who'll be forced to live with their parents
Dole money will be stopped for those who refuse to find work
Mr Cameron shares his views on Euro2012, Jimmy Carr, and what really happened when he left his daughter in the pub

Radical new welfare cuts targeting feckless couples who have children and expect to live on state handouts will be proposed by David Cameron tomorrow.
His bold reforms could also lead to 380,000 people under 25 being stripped of housing benefits and forced to join the growing number of young adults who still live with their parents.
In a keynote speech likely to inflame tensions with his deputy Nick Clegg, the Prime Minister will call for a debate on the welfare state, focusing on reforms to ?working-age benefits?.

Among the ideas being considered by Mr Cameron are:
Scrapping most of the £1.8 billion in housing benefits paid to 380,000 under-25s, worth an average £90 a week, forcing them to support themselves or live with their parents.
Stopping the £70-a-week dole money for the unemployed who refuse to try hard to find work or produce a CV.
Forcing a hardcore of workshy claimants to do community work after two years on the dole ? or lose all their benefits.
Well-placed sources say Ministers are also taking a fresh look at plans to limit child benefit to a couple?s first three children, although Mr Cameron is not expected to address this issue directly tomorrow.
Speaking exclusively to The Mail on Sunday, Mr Cameron said: ?We are sending out strange signals on working, housing and fa8milies.?

He argued that some young people lived with their parents, worked hard, planned ahead and got nothing from the State, while others left home, made little effort to seek work and got a home paid for by the benefits system.

?A couple will say, ?We are engaged, we are both living with our parents, we are trying to save before we get married and have children and be good parents. But how does it make us feel, Mr Cameron, when we see someone who goes ahead, has the child, gets the council home, gets the help that isn?t available to us???
?One is trapped in a welfare system that discourages them from working, the other is doing the right thing and getting no help.?
Asked if he would take action against large families who were paid large sums in benefits, he replied:
?This is a difficult area but it is right to pose questions about it. At the moment the system encourages people not to work and have children, but we should help people to work AND have children.?
His plan to axe housing benefit for the under-25s will have exemptions for special cases, such as domestic violence, but he said: ?We are spending nearly £2 billion on housing benefit for under-25s ? a fortune. We need a bigger debate about welfare and what we expect of people. The system currently sends the signal you are better off not working, or working less.?
He also favours new curbs on the Jobseeker?s Allowance, demanding the unemployed do more to find work. He said: ?We aren?t even asking them, ?Have you got a CV ready to go?? ? A small minority of hardcore workshy, an estimated 5,000 to 10,000, could be forced to take part in community work if they fail or refuse to find work or training after two years.
The Prime Minister wants to show he is committed to radical policies, but his speech could exacerbate strains with Coalition partner Mr Clegg, whose Lib Dems oppose drastic welfare cuts.
It follows the row over plans to revive O-levels and will fuel rumours the Coalition could end long before the 2015 Election. ?As leader of a political party as well as running a Coalition it?s right sometimes to make a more broad-ranging speech,? said Mr Cameron.
A Government official said: ?Decent folk are fed up with the increasing abuse of the welfare system. Responsible people who work damned hard, often on low incomes, to support themselves, are sick and tired of seeing others do nothing and live off the state.
?Labour threw ever greater sums of money at the problem and made it worse. If we want to encourage responsibility we have be bold enough to tackle these issues. We suspect some of those who refuse point-blank to seek work are working on the black market and claiming fraudulently.?
But a Labour source said: ?It is easy for rich Tories with big houses to have grown-up children at home while they find their feet. It?s different if you live in a tiny council flat and your daughter is a single mum.? Ministers said curbs on housing benefit for the under-25s, had helped slash the welfare bill in Germany and Holland

OP posts:
molly3478 · 26/06/2012 15:49

yoyo there are loads of jobs that you will probanly use thrir services off in yourblife that pay minimum wage. Those people cant afford to save enough when not working to fundcthemselves if made redundant. These jobs are often very important to society, many times more important than hrt tax payers jobs.Its not a case of workibg harder good job not everyone thinks like that

YoYoYoItsTillyMinto · 26/06/2012 15:50

molly - wages are low in unskilled jobs because there are a lot of people wanting them. there is also long term skills shortage in this country and roles that are filled by migrants.

the more people upskill & fill the roles filled by migration in the last boom, the fewer people competing for lower paid jobs and their wages will rise.

molly3478 · 26/06/2012 15:53

carers, nursery stagf and healthcare assistants are often on minimum wage.Would you like those to ve done with just anyone? I wouldnt like to tell those people go off and work harder to make a contribution.They also maybe be rubbish pay but most definitely cant be done by anyone.

molly3478 · 26/06/2012 15:55

Also wages in a lot of areas will never rise.Lots of people are getting made redundant and replaced with 260 an hour people who havent got the training or experience.

TalkinPeace2 · 26/06/2012 16:02

Yoyoyo
the vast bulk of the skills shortage is for the trades
Plumbers
Electricians
Roofers
Carpenters
Painters
Welders
Joiners
Mechanics
Fitters
Plasterers
Bricklayers
all the skills that are persistently and consistently undervalued by UK governments of the last 15 years in favour of "academic rigour" and degrees (see other threads passim)

LST · 26/06/2012 16:03

You are so far up your on self righteous arse it's untrue Yoyo

I work fucking hard. For no money. You have no idea.

molly3478 · 26/06/2012 16:07

Lets hope yoyo or anyone she cares about never goes in a care home causebif we followed her advice none of the caring self sacrificing people I know who work in that type of role for no respect from society and earn minimim wage or thereabouts who have been doing it for years with lots of experience will have been replaced with any old person and they will have gone off to earn more money in 'better' jobs Hmm

YoYoYoItsTillyMinto · 26/06/2012 16:09

molly - i agree those jobs cannot be done well by anyone. but often they are done by anyone. yes their wages could rise - its how prices work.

i am not saying people dont work hard. my cousin earns NMW, i earn say 20x what she earns. shes is not lazy & she is clever. our parents had the same start in life.

YoYoYoItsTillyMinto · 26/06/2012 16:10

LST - grow up!

LineRunner · 26/06/2012 16:10

I'm afraid that supply & demand economic sympathisers will always be with us. I'm more of a social ecosystem kind of person, myself.

TalkinPeace2 · 26/06/2012 16:10

"the more people upskill & fill the roles filled by migration in the last boom, the fewer people competing for lower paid jobs and their wages will rise"

The last boom was a debt fuelled bubble. It had no tangible outcome unlike previous true booms.

How does one "up skill" to compete with a 19 year old Polish girl cleaning locker rooms on minimum wage (£4.98 / hour or £9840 per year) ?

molly3478 · 26/06/2012 16:11

I dont see how their wages could rise if they were going to they would.I know numerous carers in both healthcare and childcare with firsts and 2.1s, and years of experience but still get minimum wage.

TalkinPeace2 · 26/06/2012 16:12

yoyoyo
wages rise under two conditions : shortage of supply or unionisation
which one do you expect to work for a cleaner at a gym?

YoYoYoItsTillyMinto · 26/06/2012 16:12

why would someone hire her instead of [you]?

molly3478 · 26/06/2012 16:13

By the way sorry for all errors in this writing on such a small phone screen can hardly see it!

TalkinPeace2 · 26/06/2012 16:14

yoyoyo
the Poles can afford to work for less because they live (without housing benefit) in shared houses that would be illegal due to overcrowding if the state got involved. 11 to a 3 bed house is not uncommon.

and personally I live on my dividend income.

LineRunner · 26/06/2012 16:16

Having trawled through the Job Centre website with DD, I can confirm that most of the vacancies here are for trades such as plumbers and solderers - but the wages are still shit.

However the biggest category is Sales, where there don't seem to be any wages at all. These are False Jobs, artificially boosting the vacancy statistics.

It's pretty depressing.

molly3478 · 26/06/2012 16:16

Yoyo - all due respect you can tell you havent working in low paid industries for a while.I know experienced carers who have been made redundant and after a few monthe replaced by 2.60 trainees to save money. Business owners often cant afford to care they just need cheaper and cheaper. Loads of industries are like this then people are made to do more and more for low wages and conditions.

TalkinPeace2 · 26/06/2012 16:18

Tesco after all got lots of free workers under the Workfare scheme ....
And all those unpaid stewards at the Diamond Jubilee stuff - no upward pressure on their wages

FrothyOM · 26/06/2012 16:19

It's not as easy as it seems to upskill. Many employers don't bother with training people anymore when they can get ready trained staff from abroad. I think our education system should sort this. Non-academic kids leaving school don't stand a chance. It's wrong.

GCSE's are worth fuck all if you don't get a C or above-why not train kids who won't get high grades in brick laying or something.

LineRunner · 26/06/2012 16:19

Hi YoYo, Taking your point, if I took that £10k p.a. job instead of the young Polish woman (say), then I could only survive with a public subsidy, which people like yourself would end up paying out of your taxes.

And employers have no incentive to pay higher wages because they don't need to.

It is a bit of a mess.

LineRunner · 26/06/2012 16:21

And if I haven't expressed that well, I mean that wages in this country for the masses are far too low.

molly3478 · 26/06/2012 16:22

In 2006 I worked with a polish girl and her bf in the same job she was making enough in one year to live in shared room in england then go home pay for her wedding and put a deposit doen on a house! We were only waitresses no wonder they work harder

LST · 26/06/2012 16:23

Me grow up Yoyo? Really!?

Says you who thinks that I should 'sort my own problems put' if I fall on hard times with no money.

Well done you for paying in tax what me and DP wouldn't get in almost 4 years of working.

I hope somebody doesn't knock you off your podium one day..

LST · 26/06/2012 16:24

'Out' not 'put'