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So David Cameron (we are in it together) really wants to fuck up our children then!

660 replies

belleMarie · 23/06/2012 23:14

How can anyone be taken in by this muppet? whilst him, Sam (and her £1000 pound frocks) and kiddies eat good, sleep good, shit good - we're basically screwed?

His hate for the poor/have-not is staggering and apart from a a couple of grunts here and there, this man is unstoppable.

Cameron to axe housing benefits for feckless under 25s as he declares war on welfare culture
Prime Minister gives exclusive interview to the MAIL ON SUNDAY
Reveals housing benefit will be scrapped for under 25s, who'll be forced to live with their parents
Dole money will be stopped for those who refuse to find work
Mr Cameron shares his views on Euro2012, Jimmy Carr, and what really happened when he left his daughter in the pub

Radical new welfare cuts targeting feckless couples who have children and expect to live on state handouts will be proposed by David Cameron tomorrow.
His bold reforms could also lead to 380,000 people under 25 being stripped of housing benefits and forced to join the growing number of young adults who still live with their parents.
In a keynote speech likely to inflame tensions with his deputy Nick Clegg, the Prime Minister will call for a debate on the welfare state, focusing on reforms to ?working-age benefits?.

Among the ideas being considered by Mr Cameron are:
Scrapping most of the £1.8 billion in housing benefits paid to 380,000 under-25s, worth an average £90 a week, forcing them to support themselves or live with their parents.
Stopping the £70-a-week dole money for the unemployed who refuse to try hard to find work or produce a CV.
Forcing a hardcore of workshy claimants to do community work after two years on the dole ? or lose all their benefits.
Well-placed sources say Ministers are also taking a fresh look at plans to limit child benefit to a couple?s first three children, although Mr Cameron is not expected to address this issue directly tomorrow.
Speaking exclusively to The Mail on Sunday, Mr Cameron said: ?We are sending out strange signals on working, housing and fa8milies.?

He argued that some young people lived with their parents, worked hard, planned ahead and got nothing from the State, while others left home, made little effort to seek work and got a home paid for by the benefits system.

?A couple will say, ?We are engaged, we are both living with our parents, we are trying to save before we get married and have children and be good parents. But how does it make us feel, Mr Cameron, when we see someone who goes ahead, has the child, gets the council home, gets the help that isn?t available to us???
?One is trapped in a welfare system that discourages them from working, the other is doing the right thing and getting no help.?
Asked if he would take action against large families who were paid large sums in benefits, he replied:
?This is a difficult area but it is right to pose questions about it. At the moment the system encourages people not to work and have children, but we should help people to work AND have children.?
His plan to axe housing benefit for the under-25s will have exemptions for special cases, such as domestic violence, but he said: ?We are spending nearly £2 billion on housing benefit for under-25s ? a fortune. We need a bigger debate about welfare and what we expect of people. The system currently sends the signal you are better off not working, or working less.?
He also favours new curbs on the Jobseeker?s Allowance, demanding the unemployed do more to find work. He said: ?We aren?t even asking them, ?Have you got a CV ready to go?? ? A small minority of hardcore workshy, an estimated 5,000 to 10,000, could be forced to take part in community work if they fail or refuse to find work or training after two years.
The Prime Minister wants to show he is committed to radical policies, but his speech could exacerbate strains with Coalition partner Mr Clegg, whose Lib Dems oppose drastic welfare cuts.
It follows the row over plans to revive O-levels and will fuel rumours the Coalition could end long before the 2015 Election. ?As leader of a political party as well as running a Coalition it?s right sometimes to make a more broad-ranging speech,? said Mr Cameron.
A Government official said: ?Decent folk are fed up with the increasing abuse of the welfare system. Responsible people who work damned hard, often on low incomes, to support themselves, are sick and tired of seeing others do nothing and live off the state.
?Labour threw ever greater sums of money at the problem and made it worse. If we want to encourage responsibility we have be bold enough to tackle these issues. We suspect some of those who refuse point-blank to seek work are working on the black market and claiming fraudulently.?
But a Labour source said: ?It is easy for rich Tories with big houses to have grown-up children at home while they find their feet. It?s different if you live in a tiny council flat and your daughter is a single mum.? Ministers said curbs on housing benefit for the under-25s, had helped slash the welfare bill in Germany and Holland

OP posts:
YoYoYoItsTillyMinto · 26/06/2012 16:25

LineRunner Tue 26-Jun-12 16:19:58
Hi YoYo, Taking your point, if I took that £10k p.a. job instead of the young Polish woman (say), then I could only survive with a public subsidy, which people like yourself would end up paying out of your taxes.

Yes. As long as people help themselves, its everyones job to support them.

TalkinPeace2 · 26/06/2012 16:32

yoyoyo
you have missed the point.
That subsidy includes Housing Benefit.
And without Housing benefit, people will NOT be able to take low paid jobs in expensive areas.

Where does your cleaner live?
And your gardener?
And the lady who does your ironing?

LineRunner · 26/06/2012 16:34

YoYo, I think it the government's job to require employers to pay living wages, and to require everyone to pay fair taxes.

I don't like the fact that wages are so low that the state has to subsidise workers. A working wage should be enough.

LadyInDisguise · 26/06/2012 16:41

The issue I have with these Ideas Is that it is based on the assumption that good hard working people will find jobs and sustain themselves.
Reality is this is not the case (as most people who live in the real world will know).
Many hard working people will struggle to find jobs atm.
It is also Implying that families should the ones to entire that pne has a roof over their head, in effect switching that responsability from the state to individuals. I actually think this Is D Cameron idea of a big society. We reduce gov spending.by cutting helps and then expect everyone else to pick up the pieces.
So mum and dad are supposed to help their dcs until they are ....25~30yo. Never mind that by that time they have been adults for 10years or so and should be able to look after themselves.
A society where adults who have a job, work but can not live an independant life, choose who to live with, eg their gf or bf or by themselves and not their parents, has a major problem imo.

YoYoYoItsTillyMinto · 26/06/2012 16:43

talking - i am not advocating removal of HB for all. if you are < 25 & cannot support yourself, the average person need to live at home & work on their employablity. YP with social workers obviously need diferent support but this need did not start at 18.

I pay my cleaners £10ph. that is not a bad wage. i ahve worked for less.

TalkinPeace2 · 26/06/2012 16:44

In Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece, the tendency not to leave home has led to even HIGHER youth unemployment, lower rates of marriage and children and increased tax avoidance.

JUST what we need here.

TalkinPeace2 · 26/06/2012 16:46

Yoyoyo Are your cleaners English? - I only ask because foreigners are not entitled to most benefits. Do they live near you?

FrothyOM · 26/06/2012 16:46

I'm convinced this will trap people in unemployments if their parents live in unemployment blackspots.

YoYoYoItsTillyMinto · 26/06/2012 16:48

talkin - one english one E european. Yes re location.

Want2bSupermum · 26/06/2012 16:52

I just wanted to add that I think young people need to understand that sometimes you have to work 2 jobs to make it. I worked 3 jobs to get ahead. While I don't think there should ever be a blanket rule when it comes to support I do think many of those under the age of 25 do not need government support.

I say this as someone whose father refused to support me after the age of 18. I paid my own way by working and being entrepreneurial. Most people think I am where I am because of my father's wealth. I do not think it is unreasonable for someone under the age of 25 to work 2 jobs. They can also rent a room in a house rather than live on their own. Back in 2002-2004 I paid GBP50 a week for a room in a nice part of London (zone 2) when average rents were 500/month. Granted the room was tiny but I was working all the time so not at home.

LadyInDisguise · 26/06/2012 16:52

So knowing that jobs are scarce and a young adult will prob gave.to move to find a job in relation to their education, It is ok and preferable for them to stay at.home with their parents, miss the opportunity to get a job and gain experience.
Which then mean they might get restricted AS to what job they can do, perhaps go for minimum wage job when they could have got much better. Isn't that waste of tax payer money.to fund education that will never be used? Let alone the fact it Is a waste of skill for the society.

spottymerlin · 26/06/2012 16:54

Housing benefit didn't make much difference when I was homeless when I was 23.
I applied for help to my local council, the council where I grew up, and the council where my other half grew up. My local council said I would be waiting for over a year and I would need to continue sleeping rough during that time.
My local council where I grew up said they could offer me a YMCA hostel for men with drug and alcohol problems but I was likely to be raped, they advised getting pregnant at my earliest possible convenience because then I would go straight up the list and would not have to be homeless ever again.
Finally I got a bedsit in the north of Scotland (I was living in Devon at the time). I had to leave my employment, and pay for the journey myself. I was then stuck in the middle of nowhere, with no job prospects, I didn't no anyone, had no support, and it cost me £12 per week in bus fare to sign on (I got £42 per in JSA )
I saved up for 8 months every single penny until I could move back to England to get a job. It was a pointless horrible time. I felt very much rejected by the society to which I had been paying tax and NI to since I was 16.

So I don't think Cameron will make any difference - the system is already in a mess.

FrothyOM · 26/06/2012 16:58

He will make a difference - he will increase the number who will go through what you went through, Sad (@spottymerlin)

carernotasaint · 26/06/2012 17:00

Want to be I saw a comment on a carers forum last night.
A lady was talking about her nephew who is working in a well known high street store. He is only being given 12 hours work a week but his employer insists he keeps himself available at ALL times.
So can you please explain how he is suppossed to work 2 jobs to make it Want2bSupermum.

FrothyOM · 26/06/2012 17:00

want2besupermum, do you really think there are enough jobs for people to have 2?!

There really aren't Sad

FioFio · 26/06/2012 17:06

High unemployment and high living costs are surely part of this rather than the feckless under 25s Confused

They don't have a clue about normal folk though do they, these tories?

molly3478 · 26/06/2012 17:06

agree with carer the few jobs that are available here are often like that.Must be available constantly but hardly any hours.

TalkinPeace2 · 26/06/2012 17:10

"Zero Hour Contracts" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-hour_contract
"Interns" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern#United_Kingdom
"workfare" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workfare#Workfare_in_the_United_Kingdom

Abolish those - then there might be more decent jobs so young people will not NEED to claim housing benefit
(once house prices and rents are no longer being propped up by UK tax haven status)

carernotasaint · 26/06/2012 17:11

Exactly molly. Its crap and it needs to stop. Employers are basically being allowed to keep their workers in poverty by enforcing this rule.Surely it should be classed as an Unfair Contract Term. And then these same employers are scratching their heads and wondering why no one is coming into their stores and spending any money.

TheHumancatapult · 26/06/2012 17:11

yup and dont forget at 18 minmum wage is lower

FioFio · 26/06/2012 17:12

I work in retail and we have so much choice re. staff now that is exactly true carer, except you can be contracted to a minimum of 8 (or it might be 8.5) hrs p/w

I am part time and a carer also btw but I think it's alot harder for people to work full time in lower skilled jobs than we and the media are often led to believe. At our particualr store I think TWO people out of 40 are fullt ime. I don't think that's unusual

carernotasaint · 26/06/2012 17:12

Agree with TalkinPeace.

LineRunner · 26/06/2012 17:13

I also would like to see it made illegal to advertise a 'job' without also advertising the actual minimum and maximum weekly wage.

Want2bSupermum · 26/06/2012 17:19

care I was supposed to be available all hours for my job with the investment bank. On paper I was but when I was asked to stay late I told them I had other commitments. During the time I was working the extra jobs I was promoted twice. The second time I was given a pretty hefty pay increase to enable me to quit making sandwiches and cover the asian markets. It was only after I got the increase that I quit the 2nd job. Also, what are the hours of the high street store? Can't he get a job as a waiter or serving in a pub? How about looking for job with a different high street store that are able to offer him more hours.

Frothy I graduated in 2002 and there were not many jobs available. I had a graduate job offer rescinded. I managed to get them to give me 6 months of work experience. People were getting laid off but I managed to find work because I was flexible and willing to do pretty much anything. I found that tagging along to Australians was the best strategy for finding work. They seemed to be able to sniff out a job from 100 paces.

I am not saying that I think housing benefit for under 25s should be removed in all cases. There are cases where help is needed, such as for spottymerlin. However, I know one person who put his name down on the list when he turned 18 and got a place at 24. I am friends with his girlfriend. He was able to swap his place for a 1 bed apartment in central London (by Victoria station). She was earning GBP30K a year and he could have easily found a 2nd job in London to support them renting a 1 bed or studio privately in zone 2. He got housing benefit because of his low wage and he didn't declare his girlfriend as living with him as she only spent Tues through Thursday night at his (on paper at least).

NowThenWreck · 26/06/2012 17:21

Spottymerlin-Awful story, but you are talking about council housing, and the misery that lies in wait when you are trying to get some.

A whole other issue to housing benefit.