to think if you want to work in silence, don't go to a coffee shop

[whimsicalname]

I was in a chain coffee shop this morning, across the road from our city museum, waiting with my 2 year old for it to open.

I was drinking my coffee, he sat opposite me eating raisins. Other people were working, or chatting, or reading the paper. You know, doing normal coffee shop stuff.

After a while, the boy gets up to wander around. He's not running, he's not sticky, he's just mingling. He walked towards a man with a laptop. Stood nearby him, and then said hello. Man looked up at me, and said 'do you mind, I'm concentrating here' in a really unpleasant way.

If I'd been with a couple of friends chatting we'd have made a lot more noise but I can't help but feel he probably wouldn't have told us off!

We were across the road from the university library (which has some open access areas) and all of 200m away from the city central library, so plenty of options for quiet. Blimey, he could even have sat in the cathedral for some quiet contemplation.

AIBU or was he?

"Never had a problem with my kids wandering off. They sher taught to sit at a table"

LOL, I might have written that if I'd only had DD. My two DO sit at the table. My older DD never wandered. My sociable, energetic son is a different matter. Yes he will eat at the table. It's when he's finished and I'm gathering my stuff he sometimes has the audacity to WALK away. Ok, I know what you're saying. I'm at this point often stressed and trying to gather him, DD and my stuff and leave! But sometimes, he does actually, in that small amount of time, manage to INTERACT with some nearby stranger! I'm not saying I expect everyone to want that, just that with some toddlers, it's inevitable that a situation can arise where they end up being able to speak to someone they don't know. Am I living in some alternate existance here, or isn't it normal that small children you don't know do sometimes speak to you in public, and not just because their parent is being slack?

If having well behaved children who I can take anywhere makes me smug, then I can live with that. Better smug than embarrassed.

Good for you , have a medal.

No superiority, just frustration at parents like you who don't want to teach their children basics of how to behave when in public.

Right, so you are assuming my kids are badly behaved now...That's nice for you.

I teach them to be polite. So when they are an adult, and a toddler approaches them in a cafe, they will not dealt with him rudely.

That's different though Magic, if you are leaving and he wanders off a bit, fair enough. What gets my goat is people sitting chatting while their children wander about unsupervised.

How about neither smug nor embarrassed - not mutually exclusive you know!

I hate toddlers that are left to "mingle" in coffee shops etc, its so easy to trip over the rugrats when you are carrying a tray etc. And no, someone else's darling going "hello" when I am trying to have a quiet coffee is not my idea of heaven.

I didnt say I was smug, someone else did. I said that I would rather be smug than embarrassed.

I will finish the post I started before my IPod threw a wobbly.

My children were taught to sit at the table, were they played with the selection of toys that they had brought, talk quietly either amongst themselves or with the adults that they where with, if they where tempted to leave the table then I would try to distract them. If they had a tantrum then I would go outside until they had calmed down and try again, if it continued then I would pack up and go.

I really can't bear parents who do not supervise their children in public.
It pisses me off no end, particularly as I am bit common and get glared at if I dare to raise my voice even slightly in order to pull mine up.

Tutting and eye rolling at the gobby chav whilst their darlings interrupt others and nick food
BUT I think the man in the op was rude. It sounds like he was taking out his crap on a toddler. He was being self important. Jeez if your work is that vital don't do it in a cafe.

What if it were an old person saying a cheery hello? It doesn't take much to smile and say hello back.

The OP's dc seemed to be behaving within perfectly acceptable boundaries.

MagicHouse - there's a huge difference between what you describe, and a mum allowing her child to wander round the coffee shop 'mingling'.

I can see a bit of both sides here. I don't think it is unreasonable to want to work or read in peace in a coffee shop - peace, though, not silence. And I would define peace, in this instance, as tuning out the background noise (because, basically, the vast majority of it is not my problem/responsibility), and not interacting with other people unless I want to, or it's neccessary. And I think it can be easier to find that in an anonymous coffee shop than in your workplace or home, because you are unlikely to know anyone there.

I do also think that, for parents with young children, a coffee shop can be a good place for practicing social interactions, and helping them to learn what goes and what doesn't. For example, in the OP, the man was clearly working or concentrating on his laptop - that should have been a signal to the OP that he wanted to be left alone - I'm sure she wouldn't have gone up to start a random chat with him, because she'd see that he was working - but a two-year-old isn't going to know this - so maybe she should have given her child some guidelines when letting him wander - "Yes you can have a little wander round, love, but that man is working (or that lperson is reading their book), so don't bother them. But if there had been someone whose body language was saying that they wouldn't mind an interruption (or might even welcome it) - someone smiling at the child as they wandered, or smiling at the mum, or saying hello to the child - then she could have said, "would you like to go and say hello to the lady?"

Basically, there's nothing wrong with a child learning that sometimes other people want to be left in peace to get on with whatever they are doing - and other times they may be very happy to have a chat with a 2-year-old.

I have a slight suspicion that the 5-year-old in pictish's story about the festival has never been taught that some people don't want to be interrupted. Perhaps he wandered off in coffee shops and chatted to anyone and everyone, and his mum just looked on indulgently, thinking how lucky everyone was to get to talk to her child.

Whimsical - I am sorry, but on this occasion you were being unreasonable. As I said, you should have given your child some boundaries when he went wandering.

Children of that age should be allowed to wander off a bit - under a watchful parental eye of course - they are learning by discovery and part of that is interacting with other people... isn't it?

There are all sorts of toddlers - those that wonder and those that don't - I have had two of each and both are equally hard work in different ways IME. Of course parents should make sure their children don't annoy others, but a 2 year old saying "hello" is surely not being hideously badly behaved!? It's sad that so many think it is.

but a 2 year old saying "hello" is surely not being hideously badly behaved!? It's sad that so many think it is.

Of course not but it is good for the 2 year old to learn that not everyone will be friendly. It is a valuable social skill to realise that you might not be wanted.

So would you be happy PrincessTamTam if I asked the DC to sit down next to me, offered him cake and engaged him in conversation?

Why should children of 2 be allowed to wander off? I can't understand why parents would encourage that in a cafe?

There are times and places to wander off and a cafe isn't one of them.

Sadly, from this thread, I fear you are right.
He was rude though...

Exotic - errrm yes... except for the cake (nut allergies etc) and under my watchful eye.

I hope that people appreciate that in countries that have a reputation for child lovers that they touch, they pick up, they offer advice. I'm not sure that OP really wants that-she just wants strangers to smile nicely, say hello and not get too close!

He was rude I haven't disputed that, I think both parties were being slightly unreasonable really.

Exactly Princess-on your terms! Life isn't like that and if people are friendly it is on their own terms! Mothers have the odd idea that they can control everything and everyone!

Excellent post by SDTG.

To be fair, Sirzy, I think it depends on the cafe - how busy it is, etc. The OP has said she was upstairs, away from the general flow of the customers, in a quiet-ish area, and in those circumstances, perhaps it was OK for him to have a wander. She doesn't say what she would do if she was in the main part of a very busy coffee shop, and it wouldn't be right to assume she'd let her child wander under those circumstances, when it would clearly be unsafe for him and where it would be inappropriate.

When the boys were little, we travelled by train a lot. If the carriage was quiet (by which I mean empty or near empty), we let them wander off (under supervision, so they didn't annoy anyone) - they'd go and sit at a different table, or wander up and down the carriage. If the train was busy, we kept them sitting with us - they had to learn that sometimes they could wander, and other times they couldn't. And we were alert to ensure that they didn't bother people - as I said in my earlier post, as a parent, it was my job to judge whether people looked like they wanted peace or if they'd mind a child saying hello, or offering to put their rubbish in the bin. We had plenty of compliments on how nicely they behaved, and, as far as I am aware, they didn't annoy anyone. If I had thought they'd annoyed or disturbed someone, I would have apologised. I certainly wouldn't think they were grumpy for not wanting to talk to my child (wonderful, special, charming and funny though they clearly were ).

Thank-you, BackforGood.

YABU - your title is misleading, he didn't want to talk to a toddler, he wasn't expecting silence but just a lack of strangers taking to him. He might not have felt comfortable/confident talking to a child, I know I wouldn't know what to say (childless, never been around children).