to think if you want to work in silence, don't go to a coffee shop

[whimsicalname]

I was in a chain coffee shop this morning, across the road from our city museum, waiting with my 2 year old for it to open.

I was drinking my coffee, he sat opposite me eating raisins. Other people were working, or chatting, or reading the paper. You know, doing normal coffee shop stuff.

After a while, the boy gets up to wander around. He's not running, he's not sticky, he's just mingling. He walked towards a man with a laptop. Stood nearby him, and then said hello. Man looked up at me, and said 'do you mind, I'm concentrating here' in a really unpleasant way.

If I'd been with a couple of friends chatting we'd have made a lot more noise but I can't help but feel he probably wouldn't have told us off!

We were across the road from the university library (which has some open access areas) and all of 200m away from the city central library, so plenty of options for quiet. Blimey, he could even have sat in the cathedral for some quiet contemplation.

AIBU or was he?

well I live in London zone 2 & I go to lots of coffee shops with my kids (as well as use public transport and parks and theatres etc etc etc) and no one has ever been rude to my DC or me (related to the children).

I find either we don't exist at all, or people are very friendly and sweet towards the DC and myself.

I don't know where all these British childhaters live - maybe I'm just thick skinned, or don't hang out in places where they live. Or maybe it because I don't interpret " 'do you mind, I'm concentrating here'" as rude!

OPs DS is a toddler ffs, that man's response was unecessary and confrontational, and the OP was there so if she felt he ^was^ being rude, I don't know how it can be argued that he definitely wasn't.

You say that like it's a bad thing, Thistle

God help Britain if adults started talking to each other in public [gasp]

I'm just teasing, I know what you mean.

I am not a child psychologist, I don't really know if that is an internal or external thing. But I think, from general observation, that children become a little shyer and more self-aware at maybe around 6ish. Completely different example, but my neice, who is 7, no longer likes to run around nude on the beach etc. I am sure no-one has ever told her off for it, it seemed to come from her. I dunno, I think it's all connected to the self-awareness thing possibly. I am sure google would know more.

Dont despair for me Domestic!

I have 6 kids of my own, I can deal with being interupted by them or OPC. BUt I dont always WANT to be!

I reserve the right to want a child free half hour every now and then. And if I dont get that because you think its ok for your child to come and do a "Village of the Damned" at me then I will ask you to remove them, or I will leave.

I am not being a child hater (6 kids, remember?!) but everyone has the right to choose whether or not to be sociable. Some days you just aint in the mood and I will not paste on a smile just because you think that you child is so special that they dont need to sit on their seat like everyone else, but must be shared with the world

YABU. Toddlers should not be wandering around/"mingling" in coffee shops. I love my DS to bits, but on the rare occasions we went to overpriced bilgewater shop Costas when he was 2 or 3, he stayed in his seat or beside me the whole time. This might be to do with the fact my sister has worked in cafes and restaurants since she was a teenager, and has plenty of horror stories about hellish wee kids Mammy's wee darlings parading around, chatting to everyone, distracting the staff and getting under the feet of waitresses and customers carrying drinks, food or cutlery.

I am very sociable. I love cahtting. I really like kids.

I am also British

That doesn't mean to say that I am open season to be etertaining your kids in shops, coffe shops, planes, trains and other public places just because yours toddler decides to go for a wander.

If I am in a coffee shop I clearly don't exect to be working in silence. Equally I don't expect to be prodded and poked by other people's toddlers

If my colleagues speak to me when I'm trying to concentrate I say 'I'm in the middle of something' and they wait. If it was something social they say 'Oh sorry, didn't realise, catch you later'. If it's something work related and they need me, they wait til I've finished. I do the same. If one of us is really too busy to talk we put headphones on and put our phones on DND... (Or, if the office is necessarily noisy we take a laptop, leave the office and... go to a coffee shop ) Luckily my colleagues are NOT selfish bastards and DID have boundaries set by their mums so we all try not to engage each other in conversation when we're busy.

And, as I said, if you even nod to the small child they don't go away, they hang out with you because you are often giving them more attention than their mother is. So I go away - not because I'm fleeing in terror from the child, but because I'm usually working on a deadline and need to find a place to get some work done.

Psammead - definitely a bad thing. I like to spend my time in coffee shops either people watching or daydreaming. You can't do that if some annoying pleb is trying to engage you in conversation .

I don't like talking to other peoples children and I'm happy to admit it

I hate having to coo at children who come and interrupt what I'm doing and stand and stare at me while their parents sit there and smile like fools.

I don't expect silence but I don't want to be accosted by your dirty urchins.

I live in North London and people are generally ^tolerant^ of each other and children'd behaviour - it makes life so much better for everyone.
and I always think that "Do you mind?" is quite a rude turn of phrase - I can imagine him bristling at the barefaced brazenness!

heheheh Psammead. God forbid.

And bogeyface: I'm afraid your post doesn't exactly shine with love for the children of the world. How many kids you had yourself is irrelevant: maybe it put you off them? I sympathise, I really do. But at what point did 'Village of the Damned' make an appearance in your obviously rather fevered imagination of 'my' child?

You have a right to a 'child free' hour. However you do not have a right to that in public space, since children inhabit that, strangely enough.

And don't worry, with an attitude like yours I wouldn't let a toddler anywhere near you or your ilk.

As has been pointed out, sadly in this country children often don't know (or aren't shown) how to behave appropriately when out.

After a while, the boy gets up to wander around. He's not running, he's not sticky, he's just mingling

Look, it's as simple as this - who the hell lets their 2 yr old wander round a coffee shop to 'mingle'??

I don't want to mingle with anyone in a coffee shop. Who does?

The OP probably thinks her wee son is charming and that most people would be delighted for an opportunity to bask in his gorgeousness....but she's mistaken.

I think this is an error of judgement on the OP's part.

and how funny that a child saying 'hello' in a cafe now becomes a hellchild 'doing a Village of the Damned'....did someone call me a drama queen upthread? I'm being UPSTAGED :d

Thistle.

You should put a pic on your profile so I know who to annoy avoid next time I am in the UK.

Yes and if people want a child-free hour they should piss ORF to Hoxton or somewhere similarly child-free.

YABU
It sounds like he was a bit sharper than he needed to be, but I do dislike people letting their children wander around and "socialise" with random people who don't necessarily want to have the kind of repetitive, inane conversations that toddlers go in for. DS1 is generally considered extremely articulate for his age - but I can't imagine many strangers being particularly scintillated by his choice of conversation topic:

Look. I've got shoes. Blue shoes. On my feet. There. Those shoes.
That's nice.
Yes. That's nice. Remember when I had those other shoes. When Joe was wearing a green t-shirt at soft play.
Really?
Yes. Where are my shoes? What you doing on your 'puter?
Go. Away. Annoying. Small. Child.

I have twice recently found myself forced into engaging with a small child at soft play when I had just managed to persuade my own to bugger off and give me a few minutes of uninterrupted tea drinking and internet-browsing. When you have small children of your own, even a couple of minutes of forced interraction with someone else's child can be a massive chunk of your very limited peace. One child kept climbing all over my seat and asking me questions over and over again and sticking her face right in DS2's face while he was feeding. All while her mother smiled benignly and carried on her nice, uninterrupted conversation with her friends. The other child kept talking to me and trying to take things off my table when I was trying to send a couple of work emails before DS1 came back and whinged at me again.

There is no reason why someone else should finish up spending some of their precious free time on your child while you sit in peace.

Psammead - you will tell who I am either by my vacant expression as I completely fail to register your presence, or by my ferocious scowl.

Maybe I'm just miserable. I don't even particularly like having conversation with random adults in my rare peaceful coffee-shop moments!

Just had to google Hoxton

I am quite happy to socialise with any wandering toddler-as long as it is on my terms and not the mother's terms.

you are often giving them more attention than their mother is.

Nail. Head.

I'm afraid your post doesn't exactly shine with love for the children of the world.

And your posts dont exactly shine with consideration for other people, but I am sure you must be sometimes! I love my kids and no, they havent put me off (what a stupid thing to say!) and I am happy to interact with OPC too. However, I do reserve the right to not want to sometimes and if that happens to coincide with someone allowing their toddler to roam free through my (rare and therefore very precious) child free time, well I'm sorry but I will ask the child to be removed. Not just kids have rights you know!

kungfu: get a grip then and tell said children firmly to go back to their mums.

I think I am now getting this weird fear thing now, which I couldn't understand upthread. It seems to be a combination of anger at parents who don't behave exactly as you yourselfwould (?) on every occasion, combined with fear of reprisals (do you think the mum would come rearing up to you shouting for 'telling her child off' if you asked her to leave your ds2 alone?)

I find it highly unlikely that all the grumpy mothers on here are so constantly vigilant with their own 'dirty urchins' (ugh) as to keep them away from others' 'personal space' at all times.

if I am out in a coffee shop escaping my own kids having a quite coffee I don't want to talk to, or be disturbed by anybody's kids

As a friend of mine said kids are like farts, your own are ok but other peoples are not