to be amazed at people going to church

[Hullygully]

I really didn't think anyone still did the whole church on Sunday thing (this is not meant rudely, am just genuinely amazed).

Why do you go?

Don't you go out dancing and drinking on Sat and have a terrible hangover?

Or don't you want to have a lie-in with the papers?

Do you have roast dinner after?

Where do you live?

Actually I didn't say that it was Grimma . I think the point she was trying to make is that she (we) enjoys certain aspects of going to church but cannot accept the God part. She's not alone there I can assure you.

The hymn sheet thing? Actually I meant that literally - if you had a virtual Fellowship, we could all be singing different tunes (maybe you need to have had a mother like mine who tended to know several tunes for each hymn in the book to think like that! )

I used to go along with the "teligion is an excuse" thing, but now I don't. There are LOTS of lelievers in different faiths who act FROM THEIR FAITH.

And look at the crusades.

Liking what your Dad had to say about reaching the pearly gates DrJohn - sounds like he had all bases covered in a very reasonable way

Spring - "Jesus was very much against hypocrites and the self-righteous" - probably true but he is also noted as saying "Let him who is without sin throw the first stone" (meaning none of us can)

• Not saying anyone is mind you. I think people have been remarkably generous and understanding of others on this thread.

I think its the combination of religion with tribalism or land disputes which is particularly corrosive. And TBH in that sentence 'religion' should probably be substituted by 'dogmatic belief system' or suchlike as e.g communism would probably fit too.

yes grimma, fair play there

and agree juggling, very cheering to see such pleasantness

Its nice to have a thread where the majority believe in PARD.

It is

I bet Jesus was big on PARD. Apart from those moneychangers in the temple.

juggling yes hence the agnostic - covering all eventualities

OK - have missed something. what's PARD? [ignorant emoticon]

It sounds nice, whatever it is.

Polite And Reasonable Discourse.

Ah of course. And yes, this thread has indeed been PARD. :)

I didn't know what it meant-what a pity we don't have more of them!

"my dad always says, if I get to the pearly gates and find there was someone there all along I'll be surprised but I'll say "look old chap, I'm a reasonable person, I'll happily go along with all this now but down there, did you expect me to guess?" "

Heeeeeeee! This amuses me greatly because there was a meme thing doing the rounds on a blog site I used to belong to that went "What do you think St Michael would say to you when you get to the pearly gates?"

My response was:

St Michael: Didn't believe in God? Ha! Bet you feel silly! Come on in anyway, you lived a decent life.

Sorry, meant to elaborate on my side of the Agnostic Atheist thing as well, I'm as convinced an Atheist as I think it's possible to be but I can't prove a negative. Infinity being infinite in all directions we can't physically look for God everywhere, (at least as far as I understand it, Physics is not my strong point) and looking anywhere else is an issue of faith which, being an Atheist, I haven't got.

Reasonable yes, "polite" I'm not sure, straight-talking and honest definitely :)

You can't earn your way into heaven by leading a "good life" though.

I think it's a great thread. It's made me reassess a lot of stuff and am still doing so. It's good to have stuff to think about, ponder and mull, innit?

Hully.I'm a good Catholic girl,so when you marry me can it be in a propper RC church please. Mx.

Perhaps that's a shame Spring - we could probably do with more people on this Earth trying to live a good life. Though thankfully there are a fair few

I know what you mean Juggling. I guess though, if you had to "earn" your way in, none of us would hit the target of being good enough! I'm quite relieved it's a free gift for that reason :o

Absolutely with you, so relieved and grateful to know that God accepts me as I am and forgives me. I could never be good enough for Heaven.

Genuine if silly question warning...

So how do you get into heaven then? Somebody told my DD that if she wasn't baptised she couldn't get into the same heaven as her BFF so is this a Baptism thing?

Seems a bit odd that being "good" doesn't get you in.

I've realised I don't actually want to live forever - which is just as well as I don't think I will be doing

I'll be quite happy if I can live to see a grandchild or two grow up a bit. I don't have any yet so DD and DS said the other day "don't count your chickens" or words to that effect. (DD actually said "If you're lucky" about DGCs - which is fair enough)

Perhaps it's raising the DCs that's made me ever so slightly weary - or maybe I'm just content with the life I've lived on this Earth.
(Went to a funeral today so such things on my mind a little)

Still a couple of things I'd like to see and do before I die mind you ....

I think people should be careful what they say to children, I hope I'd never say that a child couldn't go to the same heaven as her friend unless she was baptised (raised eyebrow)

Well, there's people doing their best and having faults - which is absolutely fine by me - or there's what I find to be a totally bewildering culture that I don't even begin to get. I find the whole thing weird and I am not surprised the OP wonders why people go to church. I wouldn't go if I weren't a christian - no way! The vast majority of the time I feel ridiculously out of step with what is going on, a total foreigner; yet I'm a christian through and through.

What I find is that the middle classes, who tend to have religion stamped through them like a stick of rock (school and that) stampede into take up leadership roles within the church before you can stop them and there we have it: suddenly the church is hidebound in middle class social rules (which are extremely restricting imo and really not actually what Jesus taught), regardless who's in the congregation.

eg someone upthread mentioned the difference between evangelism and mission ie mission is 'ministering to those less fortunate'. unfortunately, anyone who isn't british middle class and/or doesn't conform to british middle class social rules/lifestyle is without fail deemed 'in need of mission' (patronised) and that's that, impossible to get out of. Guess what, Jesus wasn't british or middle class (and neither was he 6' tall and blonde).

ranting, sorry.

Yes, I was reading the story of the widow's mite earlier. Don't think she was middle class either.