to be amazed at people going to church

[Hullygully]

I really didn't think anyone still did the whole church on Sunday thing (this is not meant rudely, am just genuinely amazed).

Why do you go?

Don't you go out dancing and drinking on Sat and have a terrible hangover?

Or don't you want to have a lie-in with the papers?

Do you have roast dinner after?

Where do you live?

My DH is the minister of our church so that is partly why I go I suppose, but on the other hand he wouldn't have a problem with it if I chose not to, or chose to attend another church. I didn't go regularly at our last church. Apart from that I go to worship God and meet with other Christians for mutual support etc.

I'm pg at the moment so not drinking anyway, but have never really been into the whole "go out clubbing and get rat-arsed" thing, even as a student - it just doesn't interest me. Also I don't tend to read newspapers, and getting up for a 10.30 am start is a lie-in!

We often have roast dinner afterwards, but that is DH's preference; I say fine if he cooks it. :)

I live in SE England and am 36 - does that cover everything?

Incidentally, DH is often asked to write letters to help people get into church schools as there are a lot round here (though none of our denomination). He will only do it for people who are genuinely regular attenders, and in the seven years we've been here, we've only had one family who left as soon as all their kids were safely in. We get 50-80 people of all ages on a Sunday morning.

"there is no ignoring all the other wider aspects about religion: the bigotry and violence it has caused and continues to cause"

See I would disagree... there have always been some bigoted and violent people, it's just that some use religion as a cover, twisting it until it becomes a convenient "excuse" for what is usually simple territorialism. Remove religion and these people would do the same things for some other "reason".

The vast majority of religious people are actively supportive of peace/love/fellowship etc.

Springy I can sympathise with your difficulties, but unfortunately I don't think any church is ever going to get it completely right - all flawed, and all that. I think it's a case of people like us getting down to it and doing what we can to reflect what Christ would want. Hully in an earlier post talked about how she felt Christianity/Church was far from what Jesus would want. I don't think it's that cut and dried but I can certainly think of individual churches where I would wholeheartedly agree with this comment and your stance Springy.

Have you had a good look round various denominations/styles of church? You may find a smaller house church or something would suit you. Church, as I said earlier, is not a buidling. Heck, you could start one yourself with a bunch of like-mindeds.

This thread is great for market research for dh and I Thanks hully!

Stepout I agree. There has always been bigotry where there are people. Nowt to do with God, but plenty to do with people in their selfishness and arrogance and pure evil. Religion is just one more excuse, and unfortunately a powerful one which means atrocities through the ages have been in the name of it. Makes me incredibly angry, and yes angry mostly at people who associated themselves with religion in order to exercise power/oppression/misogyny etc etc. :(

Yes I agree Step. Have a look at football. There's nothing in the game that means you have to go round beating up people who support a different team, shout offensive things at players and the referee or eat really horrible pasties, but the people who would do these things anyway in other context use it as an excuse and, sadly, feel justified in doing so.

I know where the OP is coming from but now I am one of them - for school reasons only. I don't get religion or even faith, at all but am now in that world for other reasons and am genuinely interested to note what God is to a lot of people. It's a bit odd to me because they have this intense relationship with a being that I just don't see or know or think exists. I'm putting that as neutrally as I can. My guestimate is that it's 50:50 - getting god or not getting god in the general population. And those that do don't understand those that don't and vice versa.

Lie in is not an issue if you have small children because a lie in is about as remote to me as the idea of the resurrection. Hangovers also not an issue - am on my own with the children so unlikely to get drunk on my own . I don't do roast dinner but we do often go out for lunch afterwards.

Am in London.

I occasionally go to the vigil service at 5 p.m. on a Saturday in my local R.C. church in County Durham. I like it. I like how I feel about myself for making the effort to go. I like the ritual and the incense.

I spent six years in my previous city thinking about going, but never once managing it, because 10 a.m. on a Sunday was always too early for me, even when DS was aged between 0 and 6.

I go because I believe we have been made to have a relationship with our creator. Although I don't have to go to church to do that, it is great to meet up with other people who believe the same as me.

I think many people in the West ignore their spiritual side. You are missing out greatly IMO. You have to ask yourself what's the point of life?

Mine is a large, lively Baptist church with a large sunday school (great for the kids) and we have people of all ages, cultures and backgrounds. We have a mixture of traditional and contemporary worship (with drums etc).

I live in the North of England.

I think many people have a very strange idea of what church is borne out of ignorance. There are plenty of churches that don't have two stuffy old ladies sitting on a hard wooden pew!! Try out different types of churches and you'll be amazed! (Only go to those that believe in the Trinity and proclaim the saving power of Christ though - those that don't will be cults).

Mops - well I suppose we could have a virtual Freethinkers Fellowship, but how would we know if we were all singing from the same hymnsheet?

If I lived in London I'd want to join the BHA Choir.

I have nothing to say but it seems that these threads always attract stupid numbers of replies, so I'm feeling left out.

"Organised religion has moved so far from Christ-ian principles that it is impossible to participate in it and not feel that it is tantamount to betraying Christ's teachings... for me, anyway." Hully this is interesting because our Vicar talks a lot about the difference between following the C of E religion and following what he calls "The Ministry of Christ" (I hope I'm remembering this right). My last regular experience of C of E church was 28 years ago, every one wore Sunday best, ladies in hats, everyone stared at you or looked down their nose and that included the Vicar. The contrast with what I'm seeing and hearing now is bloody astonishing, but I accept my experience is limited and may be down to our current Vicar.

There are issues that I am definitely at odds with the Church about, the big one of course is the exsistence of God. Attitudes to Homosexuality is a close second, however it is worth reading this page from C of E official website Though at present the Church does not see Homosexuality as equally valid it says "the conscientious decision of those who enter into such relationships must be respected, and that the Church must 'not reject those who sincerely believe it is God's call to them'." and "acknowledge it is not the last word on the subject." Not good enough, but I can respect their acknowledgement that they don't have all the answers.

I'd be interested to know why some non-religious people describe themselves as "Freethinkers", as if it can't apply to anyone with a faith. I consider myself to be a free thinker too. I just happen to have decided that Christianity is true. I had freedom of choice and information in coming to this conclusion.

"There are issues that I am definitely at odds with the church about, the big one of course is the existence of God" That one just made me laugh WM as a bit of a MN classic !

Nearly as good as Mops "but how would we know if we were all singing from the same hymn-sheet"

[Well, you know, I just like to be clear

Step - I certainly didn't mean to imply anyone else wasnt free to think! Freethought is just a label for a particular philosophical viewpoint which happens to alliterate with 'Fellowship'.

Oh, and that reminds me Hully, I think 'Fellow' is gender neutral. You'll find plenty of female Fellows in universities.

Why do you go? - I go to meet with other believers and be encouraged, worship God in different ways with the rest of the church - thru singing (with contemporary band) thru prayer and loving/supporting each other - that's worship too :)

Don't you go out dancing and drinking on Sat and have a terrible hangover? No - as a follower of Jesus I want to do the sorts of things he did :)

Or don't you want to have a lie-in with the papers? Lie in? I vaguely remember having one of those before I had children

Do you have roast dinner after? We give the kids a packed lunch cos we don't normally get home till 1.30 earliest (it's so much fun you see!) and we have pizza or something in the evening (no evening service - chill out)

Where do you live? West Yorkshire

Jesus came to connect us relationally to God, not to bring religion/rules. I couldn't think of worse torture than going through religious motions week in, week out and if he was on earth I think you'd find him at a pub more than at the local church! (not getting blotto though of course!)

Actually I didn't say that it was Grimma . I think the point she was trying to make is that she (we) enjoys certain aspects of going to church but cannot accept the God part. She's not alone there I can assure you.

Take your point step but us non believers often have to put up with religious folk thinking they have cornered the market on being a good/decent/moral person. That's possible without believing in God.

wyrd say more about this please:

the big one of course is the exsistence of God

Oh I see Grimma. I hadn't realised Freethought had that specific meaning.

It's a shame Mopswerver if you've found any religious person thinks they've "cornered the market" on being "good" or having morals. That's directly against Christian teaching as we're meant to be aware of how we often fail and need forgiveness and redemption. Jesus was very much against hypocrites and the self-righteous.

Sadly I have step but I am aware enough to realise that they don't represent all religious people.

drjohnsonscat I'm an agnostic atheist (best label I can find) with a currently (could be forever, could be not, not pushing one way or the other) Chrisitan DD who is too young to go to church on her own.

Thanks for that wyrd. I'm in your camp (without the believer DD).

I'm an agnostic atheist too! By which I mean I am atheist in the sense that I don't believe in God or Gods. I go further and say I hope there isn't one because if there is he's got some explaining to do. But I'm agnostic because ultimately we don't know. As my dad always says, if I get to the pearly gates and find there was someone there all along I'll be surprised but I'll say "look old chap, I'm a reasonable person, I'll happily go along with all this now but down there, did you expect me to guess?"