to think that having a settled newborn is bugger all to do with anything you have or haven't done?

[IcouldstillbeJoseph]

Obviously disregarding illness or feeding issues etc. I'm talking about the fact that some babies are just better at sleeping and being contented at the very begnning.

So therefore it is really bloody annoying to hear the smug parents come out with gems as to why they think their baby is more settled than others. My personal favourites are:

"i think its because we've been really pro-routine from the very beginning" - as if the parents of unsettled babies wouldn't dearly love to put their DC down at 10pm and have them drift off blissfully until some hours later. Difficult to be pro-fecking-routine when you can't put them down without them howling

"I think its because I was really chilled out during pregnancy" - right, of course that's it, even though your baby wasn't even breathing or aware of the world just yet it was definitely aware that you were really calm and has carried that over into its new little life

"i think it's because i only drink camomile tea"
"I think it's because I always went to bed at the same time every night when I was pregnant"

oh stop being so smug. Its nothing to do with you, its the luck of the draw.

There is evidence that stress in pregnancy can affect your baby's character. But I'm sure there is inherent natural variation as well.

Im interested in the 'stress in pregnancy' thing...my xh family live in a conflict zone....babies no more fractious/less variation than any I have seen here in the UK...its cortisol isnt it, that is supposed to cross teh placenta?

That affects immunity, right? so the babies should be more sickly?

Is there another affect of stress in pregnancy which affects babies 'mood'?

Also, what levels of stress need to be experienced for it to have an affect?

Maybe this is where 'chilled out mum' = 'chilled out baby' comes from...If a mum can endure stressful situations and not become 'stressed'...less cortisol produced. Should affect babies fractiousness though?

"There is evidence that stress in pregnancy can affect your baby's character."

Where??? And how (on earth) would you measure such a thing as "character"?

I think YANBU with a teeny bit of YABU.

I have two quite different DSs, but I have found that DS2 just needs the same things that DS1 had, but with a bit more intensity if you know what I mean.

You can get the same outcome with DS2 as DS1 but you just need to approach things with a bit more determination.

So, yes, they are naturally different, but we can also have a noticeable effect by the things we do.

Absolutely. It galls me when people tell me my kids are easy because I am so relaxed. Firstly they clearly don't know me at all. Secondly it is offensive and diminishing to those whose babies are simply more demanding. I find it embarrassing.

On the other hand, I think being relaxed does communicate to the baby - but it isn't going to prevent colic or change baby's character!

I think some of the arguments here are making different assumptions about parents being "relaxed" and parents being "calm". I'm sure many people with fussy non-sleepers manage to stay calm (at least most of the time), but I defy anyone to remain relaxed when anticipating the witching hour crying for the 4th day in a row. And that's the point. If you're not dealing with that intense screaming daily then you are going to be more relaxed. That's why it follows that you're relaxed mainly on account of your baby's behaviour or temperament. But just because you are dealing with it doesn't mean you're not calm - no-one is denying that babies don't benefit from a calm environment and that we shouldn't all do our best to provide that.

Completely different to a calm / relaxed style of parenting toddlers IMO.

I think the friends-of-a-friend who have a non-sleeping toddler should probably accept some of the blame given that they have been giving him bottles of tea every night since he was a few weeks old

I think it's just the luck of the draw. DS is a pretty content, chilled out little guy, and is an OK sleeper (at nearly 6 months). I am TERRIFIED of having another baby in case they are really high needs/demanding/bad sleeper.

DD was such a placid baby and slept well for the first 3 months (it went downhill after that due to teething, but that's another story). At 13 months she is still pretty easy going, sleeps well and is generally content. I can guarantee it has nothing to do with what I did or didn't do - I'm can get myself pretty stressed out and would never be described as placid, I had pre & post natal depression so was an emotional wreck for a long time. I'm not saying that its all nature rather than nurture, but she is who she is

Luck of the draw I'd say.
Both mine were chilled out from early on.
One pregnancy was fine, the other was a bit more stressful for un-pregnancy related reasons. DD1 was a horrible forceps birth, DD2 a chilled out ELCS.

Now they are both toddlers (1 and 2 years old) and a bit more grumpy with each other but nothing out of the ordinary for being a toddler.

Disclaimer: I've only read the OP, not the thread.

My friend had twins at the same time I had DD1. DD1 was a really good sleeper and I could have been extremely smug about it but it was clear from my friend's boys, who were complete opposited in that regard, that it was really nothing to do with my parenting.

I was glad I wasn't smug because DD2 was a farking awful sleeper until she was 2.5!

That post didn't make sense. My friend's twins were completely different from each other i.e. one slept well and was v chilled out, the other not at all.

"opposited" indeed! (fat-handed twat emoticon)

You are right.

My 3 have all had different sleeping patterns.

DD1 slept "through" (from 12-5, amazing what new parents call a good night's sleep!) from a couple of weeks old. DD2 did not sleep through until more than a year old. DS liked to sleep all day, and boogie all night for the first month. He's still an obstreperous bugger.

Babies are little people, undeveloped ones but still little people and we are all different so babies are different too and what works for me may not work for you; likewise with babies.

I have been driven mad with had sleep issues with both DDs but both have been smiley happy babies too, despite the lack of sleep so have to conclude that is just the way they are.

I do think they can pick up on stress though, one friend who is just manic about every aspect of parenting and prone to overreacting to every little mishap, has a carbon copy child.

I'm sure you're right, OP: luck has a lot to do with it. Dd has never, in all her 9 years, been contented and she never was a sleeper, but she is easy and delightful in other ways. Sure, parents have a huge input over the years but how well they sleep and settle as babies is, I am sure, mainly down to luck. Heaven knows, if it wasn't I'd have secured myself a full night's sleep before dd turned 3 and a half!

I do (silently) laugh at first time mums that are lucky enough to have an "easy" baby and think it's because of them. I've had 4 dc, I haven't raised them any differently and I can assure you that each have been totally different. I could have had ten of dc2, dc4 I could easily send back some days

Contented/ settled and good sleeping are two separate things IME.

My DD was a very fractious baby, colicky, brief naps during the day, but slept through the night (11 till 6 or 7am) from 6 weeks.

About 4 months she stopped sleeping through and didn't really sleep through again until she was 1. But by then she was a lot more contented during the day, happy and cheerful, with predictable naps etc. She woke during the night for the dummy that she went to sleep with and once we dropped the dummy we were into teething. Mostly during the day she was an absolute delight.

So they are two different things.

But YANBU. Nothing can compete with the sheer unbridled joy of running into someone from my original ante natal group who on her third child had finally had a bleeding nightmare who kept her up all night and drove her mad during the day. She had been the archetypal smug twat who had two perfect babies who took 10 minutes to bf while we had coffee. I know it's schadenfraude and call me a cow, but wow it felt great!

Oh and it's not dissimilar to all those wise people who tell me that I conceived my DD naturally after 5 rounds of ivf because "all I needed to do was relax"...........grrrrrr.

No, all I needed to do was to change my lifestyle radically and cut out all the toxic waste I was ingesting that affected my fertility. Once I did that I got pg.

There are a couple of studies (not huge) mentioned in this article, but have seen others: www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/may/31/childrensservices.medicineandhealth

I was using the term character generically, of course they measure specific things when they do the research.

YANBU

Perhaps some people's babies were easy because they were so relaxed. Or maybe they were relaxed because their babies were so easy.

Same goes for the lots of noise = baby sleeps through anything claim.

I don't think it's luck of the draw at all. Ofcourse it has to do with the parenting!

My SiL didn't want a daughter with her second child, so when my niece was born she basically just threw her aside, not even picking her up a few hours after she was born. That girl cried EVERY DAY and NIGHT for about a year. Even now when my son was born, my niece told me how boys are special because her Mum had cried when she was born and wanted a boy not a girl. Parenting affects your children for life.

Rainydays, we're not really talking about child neglect and attachment issues.

Sorry if this has been said, but even if being calm themselves does affect babies how much credit can people take for that? More to do with genetic luck and upbringing surely? Bit less credit taking needed across the board with parenting methinks.

If you want to wear your baby, breastfeed on demand and co sleep then you shouldnt be shocked with a baby who needs constant holding, sleeps badly etc.

For me parenting has just become so hard. Why isnt breastfeeding good enough - now it has to be on demand, cosleeping and all that. It makes it so hard to settle babies