AIBU to think that women should not have to be discreet when breastfeeding?

[lalaland3008]

I'm not saying that anyone should purposely flop both boobs out into someones dinner. But it makes me really mad that some people think women should have to be discreet when feeding their baby, sit in a corner or breastfeeding 'booth'.

I also think a breast is just not comparable to a penis to a vagina and if people are offended because they see breasts as purely sexual then that is their own problem.

Noone would object to me sitting in public drinking my coffee or feeding my baby a bottle of cows milk yet people find breastmilk offensive.

I'm not bitty mad I lasted 2 weeks breastfeeding but it still makes my blood boil that it is seen as controversial by many.

AIBU?

I have a wriggly baby who is, as I mentioned up thread, a tricky feeder. If I get him positioned and then try to get my breast out with one hand he will go mental, draw more attention to us and the whole feed might be screwed up.

If I lie him on my lap, get my breast out and then lift him into position all will go well.

If this means that someone sees my whole breast for all of 5 seconds then they will just have to get over it. I'm sure it won't scar them for life.

I am fairly modest by nature. I've never gone topless on a beach or anything like that, but when it comes to feeding my baby, I'm afraid if someone wants to be offended then that is their issue to work through, it mine.

I had a nice experience today - I was feeding DS2 in the sling on the underground. Pretty discretely but obvious what I was doing. A man who looked like he came from a part of the world where BFing is the norm sat and smiled at me. Not ogled, not peeved, smiled approvingly. It was nice.

This is SUCH a non-issue really.

I have sat in bfing cafes every week for the past 3 yrs and have yet to see another woman's nipple.

If someone were to catch sight of one, then so what? In the context of feeding a baby, that seems perfectly normal to me.

If it offends them, then they have seriously got ishoos.

Actually, WhatmeWorry, I go out with my boobs all over the place on a regular basis, so try not to cast aspersions, eh?

Whatmeworry - you really need to stay away from bf threads as you obviously have serious issues with it. Maybe you should seek some help for your issues with breastfeeding as the way you come across is very worrying.

Whatmeworry - you really need to stay away from bf threads as you obviously have serious issues with it. Maybe you should seek some help for your issues with breastfeeding as the way you come across is very worrying

I'm not worried at all :)

By judging by the vitriol of teh BF mafia if you question them, I know who should be worried.....

Maybe it would be helpful if you could stay away from terms like the BF Mafia. It's pretty meaningless to say it.

The BF mafia, leaving horses heads in people's beds and stuff

Silly.

I love the term BF Mafia, makes me feel all cool and important.

I was at a baby group today and saw loads of boobs. I thought of all of you. Most of the babies were 1-2 months old, just tiny ones really. Mums were positioning boobs near mouths, letting babies find boobs on their own, it was lovely. There was a room of mums doing their best. It is a group for low-income mums and those with some challenges so good for them. Perhaps because they are supported and not judged their children will have access to healthy, free food.

That's lovely MrsTP

Maybe it would be helpful if you could stay away from terms like the BF Mafia. It's pretty meaningless to say it

Well, I just feel Breastapo is sooo Godwinesque, dahling.

But you are right, Mafia does not fully capture the combination of righteousness, evangelism and irrationality that threads like this demonstrate.

It does seem more like a semi religious cult thing.

Really? Well that just shows how little you know about cults, religion and the mafia.

What does it have to do with evangelism? Who is trying to persuade ANYONE to show their breasts? No-one.

We are saying that if people want to, they should be able to without shame.

And that it has zero affect on anyone else.

Bloody hell, breast feeding mafia, breastapo and then likening breastfeeders to cults and religion.
Whatmeworry you say you breastfed yourself but you still come out with so much crap about breastfeeding mums who show a bit of flesh.

I am a breastfeeding peer supporter and part of my role is to visit new mums in hospital and support them anyway I can. Alot of them don't care about showing breasts when feeding but some, and almost all those who don't want to breastfeed cite 'getting their boobs out in public' as a reason not to. I explain to them that after you have got used to feeding then it is easy to discreetly feed and people opposite you or besides you will see alot less of the breast then a mum will but some are genuinely worried.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with exposed breasts when feeding, I would much prefer to know that the mum was happy with her latch and position and comfortable feeding her baby. If she is constantly panicking about upsetting people by flashing some breast or, god forbid a nipple even, she will struggle with her confidence to breastfeed.

Oh and I do feel righteous and evangelical about my role, and my breastfeeding, I see it as a right babies should have and I am there to support as many mums as possible to have the choice to breastfeed

Whatmeworry you say you breastfed yourself but you still come out with so much crap about breastfeeding mums who show a bit of flesh.

I, and others here, have argued that discretion is the better part of valour when BF. For arguing this, a small but vitriolic bunch of people have felt its OK to call me/us all sorts of names.

I didn't make up the term Breastapo by the way, it was coined by people who had come across this form of zealotry long before this. I don't like it because of its Nazi undertones, but I totally recognise the behaviours it was describing.

I also don't fully understand your polemic argument - are you arguing for or against discretion? If you are arguing for dicsretion, then i agree with you. If you are arguing against it, I disagree.

But see, I can do it without calling you names or kicking off....

I am not arguing for or against discretion at all.

I am arguing for mothers to be able to breastfeed their babies wherever they please without prejudice. For many mothers they can do it discreetly but some mums never manage it or don't see the reason to. They are though all feeding their babies the best thing they can give them and they should be left alone to do just that.

And I didn't call you any names or Kick off, in this post or the last one

But you did call people names, WhatmeWorry...

Yellow - whatme obviously has real issues - and does herself no favours with the deranged way she comes across. Best leave her to it. No way do I believe she breastfed either.

er whatme - I would suggest you don't understand Debs75 because you don't understand the central argument of this thread.

Some people like to be discreet, some don't see the point BUT because bf is not inherently shameful or repulsive there is no inherent need to be discreet.

And imo it is a shame that discretion or otherwise is mentioned in the same breath as bf because it makes new mothers/the shy/the insecure/those who are up against anti-bf pressure feel what they are doing is a bit repulsive or odd.

It is like that quote, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". I was careful not to show anything, I didn't like people seeing when DD agreed with me but I want to say to other women that it is great to feed your baby how and where and when you want, even if that involves some boob. I don't want to whip my boobs out, it makes me feel uncomfortable. BUT, if a baby is hungry and you want to show some skin, go right ahead. I think that is actually the opposite of the nasty, prescriptive names we are being called.

I agree, MrsTP - what on earth is there to be critical of? No one is saying anyone has to do anything that makes them feel uncomfortable...but I too work with women who long to breastfeed but feel shy and awkward about it, because friend(s), family member(s), have made comments about 'whipping them out' or 'stripping off' or derogatory remarks about other women doing it, and they worry that they will not be able to be discreet enough to avoid comments and criticism. Some women say they would never bf because of this, even though they would actually like to try it.

I often help mothers work out ways to bf that are comfortable, and I certainly don't urge them to do anything that exposes them more than they want to be exposed - it is up to them what they do.

I am aware that defensive sneering about mafias and gestapos and cultism and fabrications about what bf support actually is, just isn't helpful, and worse than this, it is ultimately very unkind.

I remember the feeling when I was weaning DD off nipple shields and she would complain and fuss and I had to try with and without. The thought that someone who feels the way whatme feels could have been sitting there judging me is cringe-worthy. I live somewhere REALLY BF friendly as well and I felt that way. With a supportive DH and knowing I wanted to.

I am aware that defensive sneering about mafias and gestapos and cultism and fabrications about what bf support actually is, just isn't helpful, and worse than this, it is ultimately very unkind

That is so funny - the most unkind comments on this thread have come from you lot, and you have resolutely condemned the large number of people on the thread who have said they prefer discretion. What is very unhelpful is unwanted militancy, it just puts people off. Even the NCT has changed tack, isnt it about time you lot got the message.

Blimey havent read the whole thread. Just wanted to say those banging on about discretion just have to get over it.As others have said it isn't always easy or possible to feed discretely. It isn't desirable to hide a baby under a blanket or shawl and it is horrible to exclude nursing mothers from society. I live and work in an enviroment where it is a complete non-issue. The idea that a.woman could not be allowed to feed her baby her way is abhorent to me. I don't care what names you call this attitude, I think telling women they must be discrete (enough, in the eye of the beholder anyway IMO) is akin to segregation and I hope that we have moved on from that as a society.

FWIW I only ever got supportive comments when bf in public, often from older ladies which was lovely. I am afraid I often look at nursing pairs when out and about because I think it is so beautiful and it reminds me of feeding my own babies. I hope I do not offend anyone by doing this.

I remember, pre kids, being out with a friend, her bf friend came over with 2yr old who started whining. She said, I think he just needs a wee feed, whipped out her boob, squeezed her nipple and a perfect arc of breastmilk landed on the table just in front of me! I was grossed out and swore I would never bf. needless to say2 kids later, and I spent a totalof30 months bfing, not ever really being that concerned where I was!!

Whatmeworry - I don't understand what you mean by "unwanted militancy" in relation to this thread. Can you give examples?

This thread has been about women having the right to do whatever they feel necessary or desirable when feeding their babies. No-one has been told that they must get their breasts out in public, or that topless breastfeeding is the only proper way to do things. People have been saying that IF a woman wants/needs to feed in a way that some people would consider indiscrete, then she should be able to do so, supported to do so and free to do so without comment or censure.

Equally IF someone wishes, for any reason whatsoever, to remain as covered-up as possible, they should be free to do so. No-one has told them they are doing it wrong - people have pointed out that it is a shame that many people are MADE to feel like they have to go to elaborate lengths to remain covered at all times, but no-one is saying that modesty in itself is wrong.

I have seen threads where some people have used BFing to bash others about the head or make them feel inferior. There have been threads where people have shared their stories about "failing" at BFing and been told they didn't try hard enough. There have been threads where people have been disbelieved when sharing a reason they could not breastfeed, or told they could have done so in some pretty extreme circumstances. There have been threads where people have gone on and on and on about the "breast is best" message, with no attempt to soften their approach when it has been quite clear that another poster is getting distressed. I hate those threads. I firmly believe that there are ways of getting information across without trampling other peoples' feelings underfoot.

But this isn't one of those threads. Simply being about an aspect of BFing doesn't make it one of those threads. The problem with the whole militant/gestapo/mafiatype accusation is that( even if you consider these to be acceptable terms) it is spectacularly over-used. It is trotted out on pretty much every thread where someone pro-breastfeeding makes any sort of comment. It has become the standard response to pro-breastfeeding comments and it makes any sort of reasoned discussion very difficult. Putting across a different point of view, even putting across a different point of view repeatedly, does not make someone a militant - it makes them someone who does not agree with you and is continuing not to agree with you, and is not being persuaded by your opposing views.

Sometimes I do wonder what people want of posters who are peer supporters/breastfeeding counsellors/midwives etc. For them simply not to post any sort of opinion or information abotu this topic? For them to immediately roll over and agree with any opposing view? To give information/advice that goes against anything they believe to be true?

It is a divisive topic unfortunately, but it can still lead to perfectly reasonable discussions, but only if some people recognise that not everyone will agree with them and that people have an absolute right to defend their own opinions and beliefs as long as they do so in accordance with the talk guidelines and, ideally, in a compassionate way.

Whatme - no one has been unkind to women who prefer to be discreet but there has been criticism of those who say discretion should be imposed on mothers and that it is the 'non-discreet' mothers at fault.

Persistently, I and others have been at pains to explain that 'each to his own' is fine and mothers who prefer 'discretion' are fine - unlike you, whose judgmentalism is apparent in almost every post.