to think that people who choose to have more children whilst living in social housing shouldn't expect to be given a bigger place?

[balsamicfundamentalist]

I am a member of another pregnancy forum and there is a woman there who has just had her 5th child (by choice). Neither her nor her partner work and she is complaining that the council will not giver them a bigger house (she is in a 3 bed). All the other members are sympathising with her but I don't understand why. Surely if you choose to have a child when you know your home is not big enough, you shouldn't expect the council to give you a bigger one, especially when it is sought after subsidised housing?

piglet, i figured you would think that way (ive been here a while just namechanged) as you don't come across as a smug idiot. I was directing my comment at you because you have come onto this thread late and there has been an awful lot of wankers coming on and making those sweeping generalisations.

We have to ask ourselves when we see those sorts of families, would we want to be them? I think we all know the answer to that.

IMO social housing should be for everyone who can't afford to buy, I think the housing market needs to be controlled and that landlords are curtailed in their greed. THAT would be a far more effective solution than berating some of the few; less fortunate, less bright families who don't realise the wider implications of their life choices on the rest of society.

I thinkbthst there is a saying that people are one or two steps away from being homeless so anyone could need social housing

I really don't want to be nasty and that is not my intention I am trying to be as sensitive as I can

agree completely piglet.
benefits are for those who genuinely need them as described in doggie's post.
NOT for those who want extra things in their life but cannot pay for them themselves (children, pets etc etc).
I'm off now, don't much fancy being bashed for having achieved the life i've worked hard for.

out of interest though, what is your PHD in?!

Nineteenth-century history as it goes.

Your point is?

how often do you really think that happens though Happymumofone - i don't think it happens that much. Who, apart from maybe they type of people i described in my previous post, would do that and think their lives would be better for it?

Of course if that were the case, that would be wrong and i would be as cat bum mouthed as the rest of you, i just don't believe that the tarring everyone with the same brush, daily fail attitude is helpful and actually makes people in genuine need have to shoulder social embarrasment as well as hardship. It makes me sad. Then when you get some twat spouting off about their "hard earned taxes" it makes my blood boil.

HappyMummy that expectation IS madness - because it doesn't happen like that. I have seen families crammed into social housing simply because there is nowhere for them to go - waiting lists are huge - they might eventually get a bigger place (from 2-3 beds or 1-2 beds) but they will wait blooody years before it happens. In a one bedroom flat with one child locally the waiting list for a 2 bed is currently 8 years if there are no other needs - the parents are told to make the living room a sleeping area for themselves and to give their child (and any later children) the bedroom.

LMAO at Composhat - mine is biochemistry.

Well, that's annoying, wish someone had told me about this beforehand. I would have taken up with abusive ex, then left him and claimed my council house when I was still young enough to have DC2, 3 and 4 (by 3 different fathers, natch) I might have raked in enough child benefit to afford a 32" flat screen instead of the postage-stamp sized thing I have now.
Mind you, DD still co-sleeps with me so I could use her bedroom for the goat couldn't I? Only if I can claim benefits for it though.

piglet - i dont think you were being insensitive at all, just that ALOT of posters previous to you were and i didn't want you to be bagged in with the rest of them.

No one is going to berate anyone for achieving on here, but when you have "ive made a success of my life aren't i great, and aren't all those scrouners just scum" well, its not pleasant is it.

Social housing has to be rented too, people that live in social housing still pay their rent so, why should we judge?
I live in an private owned council house but dh pays nearly all the rent, we have 4dcs but people judge me because they assume im living in a council property and they also wrongly assume we are on income support which we are not.
The thing is we don't know about peoples individual lifes unless we know them.
Some people have lots of children whilst they are emloyed with good jobs but are then made redundant!-you cannot see what is round the corner.
I do think their is a small minority of people that do take advantage of benefits & housing and continue to have kids which i do think its completley wrong knowing that they cant fund them but that is the minority of which is very rare.
Most people don't choose to live on benefits, but i do know people that milk the system so they don't have to work bur i don't know why anyone would want to tbh

berries - I don't begrudge you the life you've worked so hard for but I do beg you to remember that life can and sometimes does change - and often when you least expect it to.

I am among those who had it all at one time - a mortgage, a good job, a healthy (or so I thought) child, a husband. The child is autistic, the husband walked away, the flat had to be sold and I could no longer work full time because my son's needs did not allow me to. Now at 46 instead of a paid off mortgage and security I am out of work and in a HA house. Thankfully I have some work coming up within the next six weeks and will then be in employment again. I will never now own my own place, I won't be able to work full time again until my son is an adult and maybe not even then if he continues to need care.

It can all change very quickly - no matter how carefully you think you've prepared for life.

And those who have never contributed - as I said before - they are often the product of chaotic families and unless we as a society tackle this then nothing will change.

great post pumpkin - i think you have summarised everything i feel about it.

There but for the grace of God. The thing for me is that we live in a nice area and even the social housing around here is pretty good, there are small patches that are dire but on the whole i'd be happy with a council house here.

Here's a thing to wind all the pearl clutchers up - my mum has a three bedroom council house that I was born in, that she lived in with her mother until she died - now she lives there with her dog She has paid more rent over the years than she ever would have paid on a mortgage so anyone want to come and tell me she should move out and give it to soeone who really needs it? go on, i dare ya well, you'll be wasting your time, im going out

Colouring - I agree that's a long time, but I live in a tiny two bed house with one dc because that's what we can afford. Down the road is a brand new council block, the car park is full of nice cars, they have big flat screens in their flats, seem to have all the expensive clothes etc. The gardens are overgrown until the council come and do them (presumably the tenants can't be bothered) and most of them don't seem to speak English.

I also have a 'friend' who did the same degree as me who has never bothered to work since, she always has an excuse or flakey illness not to, yet is able to go out partying and have kids. She's on her second council home.

I'm all for the safety net of social housing and benefits, but some of those have it better than those working. Sadly some claimants give the genuine claimants who want to work and better themselves a bad rep.

I think whatever the gist of this post as about are those who are already in social housing and on benefits having more children, not existing ones. Like the extreme cases that the daily fail highlights

The council won't count the baby as another person until they reach a certain age. I don't know if it's 1 or 5? Baby can go in with mum and dad until they're older.

Won't a 3 bed house have 2 reception rooms? Couldn't they turn one of those into a bedroom

Happymummy, the tenants of the new block could be working. Social housing isn't just for people on benefits.

Hi Totem, I agree that some could be, but I think a lot aren't as most seem to be at home or in their gardens when I go past.

Happymummy have you seen big flat screens in all the flats? Really? Do you know them all personally and know their circumstances? Do you know they don't speak English?

Yes they could be working , certainly as a social tenant currently on benefits there is no way I could afford a new car or even a relatively new car. I paid £250 for my car - an S Reg Rover 200.
If those tenants have nice cars and flat screens the likelihood is that they are working but not earning enough for a mortgage.
I have a flat screen (tis lovely) but I bought it 3 years ago while working full time .
It would be easy for anyone who didn't know this yo assume I am doing well on benefits though. I am not - much less income than I had in work. Thankfully things have settled down enough with DS that I can start working again - my previous manager is sorting out the paperwork - can't wait - never been so broke.

Lots of families I have worked with who are not working (or in the never worked category) get their goods via catalogues or BrightHouse or via Provident loans. I've seen the financial mess this leaves done of them in.

Believe me HappyMummy they are not to be envied - it's a crap life if you don't work and your only aspiration is a big telly. You are in the better position as is your child.

op i am in social housing - ds and I have a tiny 2 bed flat.....does this mean should I meet somebody and wish to have another child I should be denied?

I am amazed the council sort out their crappy gardens. That would not happen here - they'd get a warning notice and an order to sort it out. It's part of the tenancy agreement that the garden is maintained.

Then again I cleared three bags of rubbish from my garden after I moved in here - the previous tenant was chaotic, a drug addict. House and garden were in a state but she was evicted as a result of it all.

Now 18 months on it is all restored to order but it has taken time and money ( which I supplied NOT the HA as is right).

Actually HapoyMummy the previous tenant here is the epitome of what you refer to. A young parent, only 21, drug issues, not in work, chaotic (housing benefit etc not sorted or maintained) and once I moved in I discovered wires bypassing the electric meter so she had been getting free electricity for God knows how long.

I pity her chaotic crappy life, I pity the child. Not for anything would I swap with her because she absolutely did not appreciate the lovely modern 2 bedroom house she was allocated here. And that is sad.

Yes really Charlie if you cannot afford it than you should wait. I know those who aren't in social housing who have chosen not to have more children yet as they canno afford to support them or to move to a bigger house. Those who have are a bit cramped until they can afford to move

'Down the road is a brand new council block, the car park is full of nice cars, they have big flat screens in their flats, seem to have all the expensive clothes etc. The gardens are overgrown until the council come and do them (presumably the tenants can't be bothered) and most of them don't seem to speak English.'

nice cars - check
flat screens - check
expensive clothes - check
slatterns - check
Immigrants - HOUSE

Do they go on holiday 15 times a year too?

does that poster hang around these flats looking in the windows and listening in to conversations? very strange