not to want to buy BIL a new house?

[MoneyGrowsOnTrees]

Am a regular but have namechanged as my other posts would make me quite identifiable while the below is quite sensitive.

In a nutshell, AIBU to want to stay out of the financial arrangements for buying BIL a new house? Background is that BIL has a house, but has jacked in previous job and taken a new one about 2 hours' drive from where his existing house is, but near where PILs live. New job has started and he has moved in with the PILs. Plan is for him to buy a new house in the new location, but the existing house is not yet sold and realistically it will be three months or more before that happens. BIL is not the easiest person to live with (massive understatement), so current living arrangements are not sustainable.

MIL has seen a house that she considers perfect for BIL and is very keen to buy it, but, the PILs being elderly, it is difficult for them to raise a mortgage. BIL will have some money once his current house sells, but there is no saying when or how much that will be. BIL and PILs are not good at communicating, so at the moment there is a lot of stress and they are basically no longer talking to each other.

DH would like to avoid his family "imploding" and so would like to suggest that we take on the mortgage for BIL, on the understanding that BIL or PILs finance the repayments and that we fall out of the arrangements in 2-3 years' time.

I am very wary of all this as BIL has a very checquered financial history and I can see that we would be stuck with a mortgage on an unsaleable property in a part of the country not many people want to live in. Plus, BIL does not look after anything he owns, so any investment would be likely to depreciate rather than at least hold its value.

Also, if DH and I take on a second mortgage for this, it will mean we cannot move house (which we might want to do) and potentially could even affect our ability to provide for our children in the way in which we would like (and have been working hard for). However, DH does not see how we can avoid offering to help, given we both have good jobs and given that, one way or the other, we will have to provide for BIL (and/or PILs) when this all goes wrong.

I am also annoyed/concerned that nobody is talking openly to anyone about this, so, for example, nobody has had the courage to suggest to BIL that he cuts his coat according to his cloth (you know, not trying to buy a multi-bedroom house that he cannot afford and frankly does not need, given he is on his own) or that, for example, he rents somewhere while waiting for the existing house to sell. I can see that this would continue going forward.

AIBU to want to stay out of it all? And if IANBU, any suggestions as to how to achieve this diplomatically?

MIL is being silly just cos she wants bIL out of her house.

Tell them all it's a falling housing market so anything anyone buys will be unsaleable or lose value. BIL should rent.

He lets existing house, or sells but prob difficult, then rents a small place so that he can cover the mortgage not covered by the tenants' rent.

Obviously YANBU, but on top of that, if this were to go ahead and it all goes predictably pear-shaped, you'd be left with a house you don't want and a sitting tenant! Exactly the situation your BiL is currently trying to avoid for himself.

It beggars belief that your PIL are so desperate to get BiL out of their house that they'll buy him a house, and/or coerce you and your DH into financing it, risking your own security for what? Family harmony? Yikes.

Renting is the answer, there are lots of reasonable ways you can help your BIL to rent - deposit, furniture, help moving etc., none of which land you with a 25yr financial commitment.

Good luck discussing this with your husband, I hope this thread helps him see the situation logically.

hmm. ethnic background? family in the habit of clubbing together to buy houses? expectation that you help each other in this?

if not, definitely don't touch it with a barge pole.
if so, do your best to worm out of the long-term financial commitment, perhaps by making a one-off donation?

Lovebunny- answer the same ethnic background regardless !!

It is weird how some families get fixed ideas they hold onto in the face of all evidence to the contrary. My PIL always behaved as though DH and I are rolling in it (Hah! I do have a good job, but income goes up and down; DH is SAHD and we have a significant mortgage) and they were struggling. FIL still does behave like that, though he has now sold one of his two houses, has no mortgage on the remaining one and has a final salary pension from his managing director's job. He is so set in this idea he expects us to buy his air ticket if he ever decides to come and visit.

The fixed idea in your DH's family is obviously that BIL needs help, hasn't got much luck/money etc. Whereas the truth is probably that he is a feckless git.

Your DH does sound drippy, OP, I'm sorry to say. With a wife and children and a job, your DH should be grown-up enough to stop following this 'rescue BIL' script. It sounds as though BIL has a lot of assets (house, multiple means of transport) so he isn't without options, he just persists in seeing himself as without options. Your PIL and DH are falling for this in some kind of group delusion. A delusion is no stable basis for keeping a family together.

Next time you discuss this, get your DH to go into your children's rooms and look at them, then ask him to imagine telling them there will be no help with university because Uncle did you over.

And if PIL feel that strongly, surely they can sell their own house and downsize to help BIL out.

How on earth can we stay out without appearing mean?

No. This is not the problem. The problem is how on earth can you get involved without appearing MAD.

I' ve read this whole thread through again, and I just don't get it. I don't get why you are even asking yourself questions like that one there ^.

Mummymeister made some extremely good points at the start of the thread - this will not be an easy thing to do anyway, even if it were a good idea to do it.

You say your PILs cannot raise a mortgage due to their ages, but that they intend to meet the payments on this one for you. How? And if BIL won't rent his flat out and he obviously has very little equity in the place if the rent won't cover his costs anyway then how on earth is he going to be able to contribute at all?

If you are all absolutely adamant that BIL shouldbe helped then there are only two possible solutions:

PILs pay rent on a small place for him until his house is sold, at which point he gets a bigger house.

You choose a house that YOU like and want to buy that is a good rental investment. You rent it to him at market rate. PILs can pay the rent on his behalf if he cannot. It's yours to sell later or continue to rent out, (whichever is the best financial option) when he is in a position to buy another house. If he is never in a position due to job loss or his medical condition at least you know you can continue to rent it to him in the long term and he can claim HB. The PILs should agree in writing to pay any shortfall between the HB and your expenses on a monthly basis, and you should get any capital gains.

That way, your DH has fulfilled his (slightly odd) obligation to put a roof ver his brothers head but it has not cost you dead money or put you in a precarious situation. If that solution is not good enough for any of them then I suggest you tell them all to FO.

Thinking of all the time my DP and I spent worrying about his house not selling before we were due to take on the mortgage for the new one... weeks of stress... Planning, negotiating, budgeting... When all I needed to do was ask DP's sister to buy a house for us!

What one learns in MN...

PS. NO, NO AND A THOUSAND TIMES NO!!! OP, please don't even consider it.

Also take into consideration the stress. Stress from being very angry
that BIL has
either failed to keep up payments
or failed to keep job
or failed to inform live in girlfriend that he doesn't own his house
or failed to make sensible repairs
or been ripped off by someone making shoddy repairs
or fails to pay bills.
Or that elderly rellie dies
or elderly rellie dies and remaining one not mentally able to make sensible decisions
or elderly rellie detiorates and must move into home and needs their share to finance this
or etc etc

zombies...ta! 'ethinic background' was a clumsy way of putting it. cultural expectations? if everyone normally chips in to buy a house they'll be badly thought of for opting out. but i'm with everyone who says no, because this situation is so risky!

OP - Are you Indian? I know you want to remain anonymous but this isn't going to out you.

I'm asking because I have Indian friends and with them (my friends, not the entire Indian race :) ) there is an obligation to help less well off siblings or close relatives.

Housing benefit doesn't get paid to family members- they are pretty strict on it.

Just adding to the resounding chorus here:

No, never, not in a million years should you give any financial help to your BIL.

For heaven's sake, your DH doesn't even dare to make sensible and reasonable suggestions about renting to him: I can just imagine the non-discussion, treading-on-eggshells that will take place a couple of years down the line when he's expected to start paying you back for your generosity!

Do you think she has got the message yet?

Trouble is, it's her DH who needs to get the message!

Dear DH of OP: you are generous to a fault for thinking of this plan, however you will be certifiably insane to actually carry it through.
If you value your marriage, your home, your children and your very sensible DW (all of which take priority over your brother), you will not commit your money to anything so daft.

Yours very sincerely,
MN Jury xxx

No no no no no no no!

Don't lend him any more than you could comfortably lose. Offer lots of support and advice. He is a grown up. My grown up sister bought a house, I bought her a nice moving in gift, I didn't pay her deposit.

I borrowed money from my parents rather than getting a mortgage. We were all satisfied that 1. There was a legally enforceable agreement giving them security and 2. There was a practically enforceable agreement (ie if we all fell out, we could borrow the money from elsewhere. I'm not sure I would have done it if we were borrowing 90-95% from them and would be more at risk of house price falls).

Just to reiterate, no. No no no.

I think you need to box a little clever here with the way you and DH say no.

Firstly tell your DH that this is way too risky for you and regardless of whether it is your BIL or your own family member, it is not something you would be prepared to sign up to.

You could then propose that together you tell his family that you considered it and approached your financial advisor and researched smart opinion on possible property price fluctuations over the coming years.

You would then go on to say that from the information and advice that you have received back as a result of this exercise it is clear that the risk factor is way too high and the experts' opinion is that you cannot possibly gamble with your family's finances in this way at this time. END OF.

The smart financial advice is to rent until BIL's first home sells and then he can buy a new one. If the family want to save on rent BIL will just have to remain living with his parents - that is the smart thing to do financially.

Providing your DH accepts and agrees that it's not going to happen I do believe you can shut down all further family discussion as to the desirability (in their minds) of their proposed scheme by repeating the advice that it is way too financially risky in the current economic climate and only a fool with no sense of risk would do it.

Actually I doubt a mortgage company would lend you the money for such an arrangement; they've got AWFULLY strict.

But I echo everyone else: no, no, no, NO, NOOOO!!!! Run away.

While I can see the attraction of Grrr's suggestion, I think it amounts to accepting responsibility for a problem which isn't and never has been yours. If you give the impression you'd do it but for the IFA advice, all BIL needs to do is find someone to disagree and tell you it's a brilliant idea. Unlikely, but not impossible. I think it might lead to you being sucked in. If you accept you coulda shoulda woulda done X, then at the very least you should do Y and Z and maybe Q.

Bloody hell.

So BIL currently has somewhere to live & a house to sell?

So he needs another house why?

He´ll just have to wait for his house to sell like the rest of us won´t he?

Sounds like the BIL is pushing his luck. There is no way I would play ball with him - too many things that could go wrong!

Thanks everyone, this is really helpful. Have shown the thread to DH and discussed it further and agreed, I think, that we should not get involved in buying the house. Have started discussing this with ILs, which was not easy and did not make us popular, but, as all on this thread agree, needs to be done. Now pray that it works!

Good luck. Hope you don't hear any more about it.

Good luck to you and dh.

Stay strong. :)