to ask, can you all just make it clear whether you are WC or MC?

[bejeezusWC]

so I know whether I value your opinion on any given topic, or whether I will just humour you

I am working class, just so you know. Although 'I pass' for MC, so I may be moving amongst you undetected. be afraid

gabsid I have read that there is always a class war raging in England...its whether and when you want to engage in it...and MC people have less reason to engage?

my parents used to say MC but I actually think WC....

Yes, I think its cultural, everyone decides which culture they would like to belong to - however, there are more than just 2 cultures!

Ok I think I see where you are coming from. My post wasn't meant to sound patronising. I read it back and realised I hadn't articulated what I meant very well.

I genuinely think I am classless. When I am with my wc family and friends I feel that a lot of their values and aspirations are very different from mine. When I am with MC acquaintances I feel equally out of the loop and spend a lot of time raising my eyebrows and thinking that they don't live in the real world.

My friend who is on my wavelength and totally gets me was raised in a very working class background but now has a masters degree and is a director of a company. This is a completely sweeping statement but I think that if you were raised working class you don't have a middle class cushion behind you and therefore you are less likely to sweat the small stuff. That doesn't make much sense but I know what I mean!

You're right gadsid, nowadays there is very little social mobility in this country.

I will probably get slammed to pieces for saying this but I think the demise of the 11+ is a major reason why. My Dad came from a WC background but got a place at his local - excellent - grammar and from there to Oxford. Many of my friends at my (private, extremely MC) secondary school had parents with an almost identical story.

Incidentally the percentage of private school students at Oxbridge was much lower in those days, perhaps because many of the colleges had close relationships with the grammars including scholarships (my Dad was one lucky recipient)

One would be hard pressed to argue that social mobility is not a good thing, but if people are WC and proud that suggests that they have no interest in being MC, hence class is not about how much money you make but purely about the kind of lifestyle you have. On reflection that makes sense - many UC are in fact quite cash poor.

Sorry gaBsid!

I know what you mean Bonnie and that is my experience too

it used to be that a working class wage from a working class job was enough to support a family summer

I think the reason WC people are perceived to be striving to be MC is because there arent so many WC jobs available/the wages are shite and you are unable to support a family on them....the options are to rely on benefits to some extent or take a MC job role

(of course there are many exceptions-self employed plumbers etc etc...but industry has gone...mills/ mines/ factories)

It comes back to education and ambition.

A lot of people left school at 16 and earn good money in skilled 'working class' jobs or have their own business. They are proud of what they have achieved, they are happy and have good lives, and they have similar ambitions for their children.

Others expect a first class degree from Oxbridge, a professional career and some neighbours of ours aim for unskilled work and have some involved hobbies.

Each to their own, as long as they are happy!

I have been teased for being 'so middle class' by a good friend of mine who is 'working class and proud'. So I know I must be middle class.
However it is really not important to everyone (a bit like being patriotic and feeling 'British' or not, for example), and not as important as it used to be in society, but perhaps it is still more important than some people realise? (politics, the old school tie etc still in operation)

I find it a very interesting subject but don't judge people by their class. Boring to mix with the same kind of people all the time, so glad I get to meet people from different backgrounds, cultures, with different regional and international accents, etc. etc.

Totally bored stupid by the ongoing and recent obsession with class on mumsnet.

Who the fuck cares??? There are nice people who want the best for themselves, their kids, who don't break the law, who are polite, reasonable, sociable and sensible.

And there are the others.

No one who has read what social class the recent rioters come from see that they were all walks of social life, ability and wealth.

There are stupid cunts and the rest of us

Class irrelevant.

The only place I ever hear class mentioned at all ever is on here.

If you give a shit about class, you're middle class the uppers and we working class don't generally think about it. Only the tweenies

I'm confusing.
I wouldn't want you to devalue my opinion so i'll try to explain

I was born WC - very,very WC (dad union steward etc)
I went to uni and have a BSc (hons)
I used to own a house (with mortgage) , but sold it.
I now own a bookshop, and my husband owns his own house (with mortgage)
he's WC (postman)

i have a baby which I BF (she's 5½ months, but I plan to go on as long as she wants) and we use cloth nappies and she doesn't wear pink when i can possibly help it
I can sew very well, but very rarely make my own clothes because i'm a lazy sew-and-sew (geddit)

Nickel, mmm have you down as new age tree hugger ha ha

rubbish hectate

oh, we don't earn a lot between us (i haven't paid tax for about 3.5years) and we claim CTC

I am so a treehugger!

I agree with hectate actually.

Its a delusion that all working class folks are frantically running around trying to move up a class, when the vast majority of us simply couldn't give a shit.

From what Ive seen on mumsnet, the majority of people that actually seem to CARE ( and not having a joke etc) say they are MC.

scheme wean, its ahardknock life at mrs hannigans daycare
and we get everywhere us schemies
just coming to get the braggers and blaggers

Have aristocratic roots way back in the family tree. My father's side is typical bourgeois, they care about doing things "right" and proper etiquette- mother's side is much more haughty and bothered about being "well bred" and otherwise they do what they want. The word "milieu" was bandied about quite a bit when I was little.

I don't know what class this makes me in Britain exactly but I'd have thought comfortably middle...

people dont talk about it in RL.

People dont discuss half the things in RL, that gets discussed on MN

depends what you mean by care pickle?

I care when working class gets bashed and villified..by the media for eg.

or it gets stereotyped.

It doesnt affect my life daily but it definitely defines who i am

Im sure VolvoMo does. A lot.

You don't care you are just starting a thread for fun.

I also get annoyed at comments like that and put it right.

I have seen some deeply concerning comments about working class people on here!

I dont think a lot of people actually really care, they are just chatting about it. People like volvo I mean by that.