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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not have sex with my partner

760 replies

WhiteWidow · 27/05/2012 17:19

Because yet again I have the most horrific shaving rash! He says he doesn't mind but I do... Now I feel silly Blush

While we're here does anyone else suffer from the BURN and HORRID ingrown hairs? How do you prevent them.. I'm sick to death.

I wish I could just go all european and not do hair removal but it makes me itchy thinking about it.

OP posts:
HmmThinkingAboutIt · 29/05/2012 18:48

The idiot who can't figure out what everyone else knows is going to be left alone on a Saturday night.

Maybe they are perfectly happy to be alone. Maybe they are better off doing their own thing and are perfectly confident in that. Confidence tends to be a very attractive trait to the opposite sex...

I do think there are plenty of women who are capable and able to do that rather than be oppressed sheep. Its a shame they can't be credited with that.

yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 18:51

HmmThinkingAboutIt - it seems to be the pro-shaving (or whatever you want to call yourselves) that are mentioning oppression all the time, not those who are questioning this practice. It's not about oppression but about gender norms.

No-one seems to have answered why men don't shave their legs. Or why very few women wax their arms.

WhiteWidow · 29/05/2012 19:01

Because no-one needs to answer it. There's lots of questions you haven't answered too I migh add.

Stop over analysing everything. We shave our muffs because we want to. Not because we are oppressed. You're acting as though we're doing something terribly wrong and to be ashamed of.

I like being well groomed, don't you?

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yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 19:11

I didn't say you were oppressed and I've said a million times that I couldn't give a rat's arse what you do with your fanny and that I shave my legs and that I have shaved my fanny in the past but mostly can't be arsed now.

You have inferred I think you should be ashamed. I haven't said that.

What level of analysis would you like me to indulge in? How much is the right amount for you? To suggest that I over-analyse is exactly the same as me suggesting you over-think your muff. Which I've said a million times that I DON'T CARE ABOUT.

Do I like to feel well-groomed? I mean, I brush my teeth, I wash, I dye my hair, I put on a bit of slap if I can be arsed. It doesn't really make me feel any better if I go further than that.

I don't know how many times I can tell you that I never called you oppressed and I don't believe you're oppressed. I believe you make your own choices.

But I also don't believe that your choices exist in a vacuum. You believe that they do.

So yippee, that's all sorted out, unless you want to tell me again what I believe about your fanny.

HmmThinkingAboutIt · 29/05/2012 19:14

I don't have dark hair on my arms. They are not noticable or course in texture. I don't have places that produce liquid near them either.

Being honest about it, I'd really rather not see unkempt furry bits coming out of mens or womens underwear or swimwear.

And some men do shave their legs. Cyclists do. (Strangely these are men who you are more likely to see in a pair of shorts on a regular basis rather than for 2 days of summer). The rest of the time men are much more likely to hide their legs under trousers than women.

Is that good enough.

Are you actually going to ask why women LIKE to shave? And LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE SAY rather than assuming and coming out with ridiculous over analysis.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 29/05/2012 19:17

Mathanxiety - I am struggling with the theory that men like shaven fanjos because they want women to look like prepubescent girls because, in my opinion it's not just pubic hair that differentiates an adult fanjo from a child's.

HillyWallaby · 29/05/2012 19:18

I have a theory for that yellow and it's really quite simple. Women as a rule are much less hairy than men, so being hairless (apart from pubes, underarms and head, where we all have a lot of hair irrespective of gender) is seen as a feminine trait whereas being hairy is seen as a masculine trait.

So women shaving their legs etc is just a way of appearing more feminine and to mark them out from men, and I suppose a man choosing to have a beard or a moustache is doing the same in reverse.

The reason women don't shave their arms is because very few of them need to. Arms tend not to be terribly hairy. The ones who do have excess facial or body/arm hair quite often have hormone imbalances, but as a rule women have much less body hair than men.

If a woman feels her arms are excessively hairy I am sure she would shave/thread/wax those too.

It is acceptable for women to be small and with little muscle definition, but men want to appear tall and broad and strong, and will work on achieving that, whereas most women tend not to want to be very broad or muscular or to look 'big'.

It's the same with baldness - most men can deal with it even if they don't like it, because it is perfectly normal and very common to go bald when you are a man. However, women suffering from major hair loss almost always choose to wear wigs, because baldness of the head is not accepted as a 'normal' female trait.

All anyone is doing is presenting themselves in such a way as to say to the rest of the world 'I am most definitely a very feminine woman' or 'I am most definitely a very masculine man'. Because let's face it, few men fancy butch women and few women fancy effeminate blokes. It's just the way it is.

That is not to say that any woman who doesn't conform slavishly to a beauty regime is going to look butch, but the purpose of the regime is to take away any doubt as to gender, and to accentuate what are seen as classic female physical traits that are attractive to men.

yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 19:21

Oh so it's ridiculous over-analysis now. So why is it ok for you to say I over-analyse but not for me to say that you over-groom? What exactly is the difference for you?

It's different that sportsmen shave since they do it for a practical reason. It is a very very small number of men.

In some cultures (middle east for example) it is very much the norm to shave/wax your arms. I'm wondering why women here don't do it. Why is it acceptable to have hair on your arms, but people would (and let's face it they definitely would) notice if you had hairy legs?

Are men "much more" likely to hide their legs? Because this weekend I saw as many hairy male legs as unhairy female ones. And do they hide their legs because they are hairy? Isn't it more because they are wearing trousers at work because shorts are deemed unacceptable workwear in most offices?

I am not assuming anything. Show me my assumption. I have said there are social norms. Are you actually going to ask why people LIKE to follow social norms?

See, I can be a big strong lady too, woop de doo.

WhiteWidow · 29/05/2012 19:25

Yellow you remind me of one of those 'sorry honey I can't come to bed, someone on the Internet is WRONG' sort if people.

I didn't ask you to come into this thread and start banging on about some stupid vacuum. Don't you realise I don't care? Are you trying to educate me or something because you seem quite adamant to prove your point. But understand I DON'T CARE.

You can apply your theory to nearly ever single topic on this site so why don't you take it there.

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yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 19:26

I absolutely agree with you on all those point Hilly.

I would also say that there's a greater societal norm for women to be "clean". You get all of those fanny sprays, fanny deodorant, fanny wipes...I've never seen a cockwipe in Boots, although I'm willing to be corrected.

Maybe people don't think these things influence you, but seeing "feminine wipes" in a shop does give you the idea that you should clean and deodorise yourself with some special product. That it specifically needs to be cleansed in a manner that is different to the rest of your body. And since there is no male equivalent, that they don't need to bother.

I saw some "toenail brightening" kits in Boots today and thus a market is created and suddenly you feel that your toenails just aren't bright enough and that peole will laugh at your odd and dull toenails.

WhosPickleisThatOnion · 29/05/2012 19:26

I'm pretty sure you said pressured into it yellow but fuck me I can't face trawling through this thread to find it.

WhiteWidow · 29/05/2012 19:27

I think Yellow seems to think she's expanding our minds somehow.

Freeing us from the matrix...

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yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 19:27

Er, right back at you Widow.

If you don't care, why are you even here? I'm happy to sit and debate for a couple of hours after work. Why not, that's what we're here for.

But it's a little silly to chuck your toys out of the crib because someone disagrees with you and then suggest that you don't care anyway. If you truly didn't care, you just wouldn't be here.

WhosPickleisThatOnion · 29/05/2012 19:28

Fanny cleaners are bad for you.

yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 19:29

Sure I said pressured into it. Are you suggesting a lot of women aren't?

Perhaps you don't feel pressured. That's super and I'm happy for you. A lot of women are pressured into things though.

yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 19:29

I don't think I'm expanding anything Widow.

WhiteWidow · 29/05/2012 19:29

I'm here because it's my bloody topic.

But it's been overtaken by people like you who seem to think you need to push your ideas and opinions on to me.

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mathanxiety · 29/05/2012 19:31

' "The idiot who can't figure out what everyone else knows is going to be left alone on a Saturday night".
Maybe they are perfectly happy to be alone. Maybe they are better off doing their own thing and are perfectly confident in that. Confidence tends to be a very attractive trait to the opposite sex... '

Hmm part of the message in that 50s ad was that being left alone of an evening is a bad thing. Women are told in that ad that not having a relationship is a problem. Women are still being told that today the message is deafening at times.

I remember reading 'confidence is so attractive to the opposite sex' on a Cosmo cover once and thinking 'oh the irony'...

yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 19:33

I'm not pushing my ideas on anyone. I mean, it's the internet. I'm hardly camped outside your house with a sign saying "keep your minge hairy or the feminist police will come and force you to look like a man."

It's not really your topic, is it? I mean, if you don't want it to turn into a debate, start a new topic and say at the top "I don't want to discuss the ins and outs of shaving." The great thing about the internet is, you don't have a limited number of words or something. If you don't like the way this one has gone, feel free to start a new one. But you can't ever claim something is "yours" on the internet because people are going to reply and you might agree or disagree, but there's really no point in getting wound up if you don't like some answers.

WhosPickleisThatOnion · 29/05/2012 19:36

So are men. Most people want to be in a relationship.

WhosPickleisThatOnion · 29/05/2012 19:37

Yellow, you have not dictated what people ought do with their pubic hair, agreed.

But you have been telling them why.

mathanxiety · 29/05/2012 19:37

'I'm here because it's my bloody topic.
But it's been overtaken by people like you who seem to think you need to push your ideas and opinions on to me.'

Now that is so funny I am wiping my eyes. Way to spectacularly miss the point of a discussion forum. No wonder it's doing nothing for your mind.

WhosPickleisThatOnion · 29/05/2012 19:39

Men are told in adverts it's not a good thing to be alone on a Saturday night.

They have ideals like David Beckham with his shaved bits.

yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 19:42

To be honest, WhosePickleisThatOnion, I am amazed that people don't believe they are subject to societal norms. If you have seen that as me "telling" people what to think, I'm sorry.

yellowraincoat · 29/05/2012 19:43

There are plenty of adverts of men WITH pubes though. Something that you rarely see for women (bar that Gucci perfume ad where a model had the Gucci logo shaved into her pubes, which counts as grooming anyway.)