To not have sex with my partner

[WhiteWidow]

Because yet again I have the most horrific shaving rash! He says he doesn't mind but I do... Now I feel silly

While we're here does anyone else suffer from the BURN and HORRID ingrown hairs? How do you prevent them.. I'm sick to death.

I wish I could just go all european and not do hair removal but it makes me itchy thinking about it.

Everyone who has disagreed has got a flaming earful.

FFS Krumbum, ? Available data suggests that nearly one in four women worldwide may experience sexual violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime (WHO, 2002).

IN THEIR LIFETIME. NOT PER YEAR! I bothered to read the report you sent me, why don't you?

If 25% of women got raped each and every year then we would each stand a good chance of being raped every four years.

Also can I just point out that stating facts about rape incorrectly gives so much ammunition to those who deny, blame and condemn women for it. When we're trying to get across the point that rapes are under reported and conviction rates are disgustingly low, misrepresenting data like you have just done gives credence to the ridiculous claims that rapes and sexual abuse is over stated.

If you aren't good with facts and figures don't just bandy them around to try and win a point on a forum.

Thank you Whos The report is clear it over a lifetime and includes all forms of sexual violence. A good report which I have seen before and I familiar with.

*I am

One of the more annoying things about this thread is the bush song. I cant get it out of my head.

I was referring to this post, Krumbum:

"The reason the majority of ppl think it looks better though is patriarchical social conditioning, it pleases the sexual desires of men at the women's expense. It has been so normalised now it's hard to know your honest opinion on if you think it looks better. It's sad as it women feel even more self conscious about their bodies. Again it's women changing their bodies for men, like corsets, foot binding, plastic surgery, makeup etc."

Thank you, I'm learning all about myself here. Also, I've never worn make up for a man in my life. Is it not possible for a woman to do to her fanny as she pleases, or is it always the nasty little men conditioning them to be wannabe porn stars?

Ah good, so my corsets and makeup are also not my decision. Fab.

Empusa Its not possible, and you have been so conditioned about it that even though you may THINK you know why you shave or trim your vagina, you actually don't.

Good job there are strangers on the internet who can tell you!

Well, it's like this: I don't do anything at all with my fanjo hair, but I do wear a push-up bra - a two sizes bigger push up bra. I never wore a bra at all until my mid 30's when my 34AA's started pointing south. I still wouldn't wear one at all if more women with southerly boobs went bra-less. I wear a bra because I feel self-conscious in public without one - that's one sort of pressure.

I could just wear a simple cotton non-underwired one though. The reason I don't is because I'm having fun with the push-ups - if I roll em up and tuck em in just right, I get a bit of cleavage which is a complete novelty for me. I have no intention of stopping wearing them (although my bra gets flung off along with my shoes as soon as I get home) but I'm not going to deny my choice is influenced by patriarchal standards of beauty, i.e. youthful, large and pert breasts. It's my choice but that doesn't mean it's made in isolation from societal standards or is in any way empowering.

Nobody is telling women to stop removing their pubic hair but I think there's a really interesting discussion to be had around the reasons for, and implications of, the current fashion. I also think it's interesting the level of outrage this discussion generates.

'What gets me is this idea that we couldn't possibly have thought of it on our own. It just has to have been put into our silly little heads by the porn industry. exactly... so are none of our thoughts our own?'

No.
There is no original or new thought out there. A huge amount of what we think is thinking and decision making is not in fact thinking or decision making. It really is not possible to come up with something original that is entirely your invention.
You probably wouldn't dye your hair red if it wasn't acceptable and if dye wasn't available -- it wasn't always.
You probably wouldn't serve plenty of foods for meals if they weren't acceptable or available, you might not have found out about them if they weren't advertised.

Yes I did acknowledge that mathanxiety but that is the nature of society, and whilst I understand it i do think that I have enough intelligence to use what I choose and make my decisions based on this.... I have a CHOICE, I can choose to defuzz or stay hairy, I can CHOOSE to cook a meal from scratch or buy a frozen meal, it is MY choice, yes we are influenced but saying that we do it just because is very patronising. The things to choose from are now freely available and I can defuzz safely and efficiently if I want or stay hairy if I want the choices were not always there and its up to me to decide what is best for me.

Could I just check, regardless of whether I shave my fanjo due to the pornifaction of mainstream culture by the patriarchy or because of free will unfettered by any social conditioning...........

Who actually cares and, why the actual fuck do you care that I do?

I care not a teeny jot if you want to grow yours and plait it into fetching designs.

Cut it short instead of shaving

I don't care what you do catgirl, you can take photos of it and send them to the pope with a note for all I care.

I do care that there is undue pressure on women (and people in general) to act a certain way.

So just let me get this straight, we couldn't possibly have thought up shaving on our own. Not even when we can explain our step by step thought process? Even then we've still only thought of it because the porn industry does it? So, how exactly did the porn industry start doing it without someone else telling them to?

Does anyone really feel pressured into shaving their vagina?

Does anyone here feel pressured into doing so?

I really don't. Which is why I haven't for months at a time.

This is just a circular argument. It's impossible to argue because some of us are talking politically and some personally.

If you thought up shaving on your own, does that mean that you grew up on a desert island where you fashioned a razor from an oyster shell having never laid eyes on such an implement?

Of course some women enjoy it. Great. Me too.

The question I'm interested in is WHY women enjoy it. I don't think oooh big bad patriarchy, I am just interested in why.

yellow I never claimed to think up shaving as a method of hair removal. But I did think of shaving my pubes without knowing others did it.

Why I enjoy it? It feels nice. Simple really.

No one is claiming to have invented shaving.

There are choices in the matter

• don't shave at all
• shave a bit
• chop it all off
• plait it
• etc

I don't feel under any pressure that directs me to a single one.

The fact that razors are available as a norm in shops obviously influences people though. I know that I also discovered a lot of things without knowing others did it. But the presence of certain items is obviously going to be an influence.

I don't remember the last time I saw a model with fur coming out of her pants. That creates a norm too.

And yes, maybe it feels nice. But WHY does smooth feel nicer to us? Why is it that you see so many hairy-legged men yet few hairy-legged women? Does that question not interest you? If it doesn't, fine, but it interests me and I refuse to believe that it is just some massive coincidence that leads one group to shave and one not to.

"The question I'm interested in is WHY women enjoy it. I don't think oooh big bad patriarchy, I am just interested in why." I will answer this as honestly as I can, from a personal point of view, not politically and with no malice.

1. Cleanliness. Sweat clings to hair, menstrual blood clings to hair, urine clings to hair. Having no hair means when I wipe, I miss less. When I bleed it goes straight to the pad. When I sweat I have breathable cottons which help and a fem fresh wipe is no harm if you're big on exercise in close proximity to other people. If you have hair you are probably still very clean, this is about my personal level of comfort. If anyone here has done martial arts you will know how close you can get to people. Often legs wrapped round other person to take them down etc. Feeling extra fresh gives me confidence.

2. Sexual pleasure, TMI alert but it's not all about the clit for me. I have a loving man who takes his time on every inch of me and this includes my entire vagina. Not just button and hole as it were. I want nothing between me and his touch. This is not about porn and oh baby I'm a naughty girl who shaved. It's about skin to skin, as close as we can be.

3. Appearance, sometimes I leave a bit on the landing strip, sometimes I have been known to go with a pattern or a colour. This is about me having fun with my body.

Apart from number 3 my reasons for this are personal and to be fair I think I've shared an awful lot here. I don't mind being told you think I'm wrong and giving reasons why. However I would appreciate if people could refrain from calling me unclean or implying I have psychological issues with my body.

What she said. ^

"But WHY does smooth feel nicer to us?"

Personal preference. I also prefer the feel of silk/satin over all other materials.

I find it hard to believe that my sense of touch is due to conditioning, otherwise god knows why I've been conditioned to despise the feel of chalk.

As for razors being in shops, the only razors I was aware of growing up were the ones my dad used/bought. Which normalised men shaving I guess..