to ask if you smack your children?

[toofattorun]

I am not talking beating! Just a smack on the hand or bum when they are being very rude or naughty.

No. I set myself this limit as I have a quick temper, and if I smacked, I would smack in anger, most likely due to external factors such as tiredness, or if I had been embarrased by what my child hdid, rather than due to the punishment itself.

I'm sorry for upsetting you extremepie. I know how hard it can be to teach a child with autism at times.

IME very clear routine and structure is the way to go with children with ASD but I'm sure you know that already. The system I worked under used Applied Behaviour Analysis (ABA) are you familiar with it?

-Either don't put them in that setting in the first place or go around with the child until they have learned how to handle it-

I just can't see this working in 'real life' though.

For example, what about school? DS (as an example) doesn't always deal well with other children (although he has never been aggressive) but I can't not send him to school and I can't stay with him all day every day until he learns how to handle it better?

What about going shopping? He doesn't like crowded places so shopping is a nightmare and usually I avoid taking him but what if I have no choice? I can't not buy food if I need it! What if he never gets used to crowded places? Should I avoid them for the rest of our lives?

(Just to be clear, as if may not have been in some of my previous posts, DS is only 4 and has not had his dx very long so we are still learning a lot about how his autism affects him)

School is a different kettle of fish extremepie. At home and out and about, you are the teacher. At school the paid teachers take over so you don't need to worry. It's a setting he has to be in, and there are people there to help him through it, so that's not really the kind of thing I'm talking about.

WRT shopping and crowded places, I would say that you have to work up slowly to getting him used to those situations. You can order your big shop online and then only take him into shops for short periods. As soon as you see he's starting to get agitated, or if he goes into a full on meltdown then you can either use techniques to calm him down, such as squeezing, distraction etc or you can leave. You can't bring him into situations that are too stressful for him and expect him to behave, it's just not going to happen. Over time hopefully it'll become clearer what his triggers are - be it bright lights, noise, people walking too close to him, or something else, and you'll be able to develop ways of helping him deal with those. But it might be the case that he won't be able to spend long in shops until he's a teenager because he just can't handle it and unfortunately you'll have to work around that. Not easy I know.

Sorry for gettin emotional cailin, its not really you its just this is a difficult subject for me and I've had so many arguments with people who don't agree with the way we parent DS2 (usually my parents!) but sometimes the 'solutions' they give are not really solutions at all. They don't seem to understand that some 'techniques' just won't work with him no matter how hard I try.

It can be really exhausting :(

I just wish that HV, paediatricians, etc would be able to give some practical advice that actually possibly works as opposed to saying 'well maybe you should try something different'!

I know I should but I'm running out of options!

It is very hard going, I know. The best thing you can do is stop seeing what your son does as "bad behaviour" that requires punishment. It's not. It's a reaction to a very confusing world. Sometimes his reactions will be completely incomprehensible to you, but remember that your reactions are just as incomprehensible to him. You have to find a common ground, a way of understanding one another.

Does he have any language? Has anyone suggested using PECS?

Cailin and LeQueen The mean what you say strategy is a good one but children generally need an 'or I will' scenario

For example one of my most successful techniques was when my DD (3.10) was throwing toys on the ground in a temper. She picked up one of those silly magazines and went to hurl it on the floor, I told her that was unacceptable and if she threw it, I would put it away and give it to another child. She threw it and I then took it away never to be seen again. That happened 5 months ago and still now I can cite the magazine example and she will pick up her toys.

So is saying
'or I will bring you home' 'or I will take away your toy' what you are referring to or do you have some mind control powers that I do not

I have heard of ABA but don't have a clue where to start, I sort of know the basic principles but have no idea where I would go to get advice about it!

The shopping thing is really - I don't want to avoid it completely because if we never expose him to crowded places he will never learn how to deal with them but every time we take him somewhere where they are lots of people I know he isn't going to behave - sometimes its not too bad but other times he will scream from the second we get there until the second we leave and leaving straight away is not always an option.

It's so difficult!

The only thing that sometimes works is on his pushchair he has a kind of 'hood' that he can pull down so he can hide away, sometimes I give him music (mp3) to listen to but I'm worried that when he gets too big for his pushchair very soon we won't have that option and I will struggle to take him anywhere :(

Yes, always with a very clear warning so that she knows what's going to happen if she doesn't stop the behaviour.

It's not a loss of control for me, it's that sometimes I feel it's the best discipline for the circumstance. I also use 1,2,3, withdrawal of a toy and the naughty step. I'm a good parent and I find some of the generalisations on this thread a bit insulting.

If I did 'lose it' I would shout, not smack and having seen my DD shouted at by someone else I know she finds this a lot more frightening than anything else. She has never been scared of me because I've never let it escalate that far.

His language is very limited, if you ask him a question he cannot respond and he can't tell you what is wrong if he is upset.

Mostly it is restricted to him quoting lines from his favourite songs and movies!

His 1-1 support person at pre-school has apparently started using PECS with choosing toys but has not progressed any further than this as yet. I've printed out some of my own pictures for him to look at but most of the time he shows no interest. No interest in signing (makaton?) either :(

What sort of school does he go to extremepie?

I have 4 Dcs, dss now 22 and 21 and 2 dds 13 and 10.

I had first children early and found it physically easy but mentally very difficult and did resort to smaking the boys occasionally, though never hard but always when I was angry.

Having dds I was a bit older and I think my calmness encouraged good behaviour because they were very placid, non challenging
Cooperative little girls.

Now as a cm I see all sorts of children and behavioural methods and the best parenting i think is when children have been taught sensible non changing boundaries. It's when parents allow one behaviour one day and punish same behaviour the next day. Or when mum says yes and dad days no.

My dh did once grab the t shirt of our then 14 year old son after he had been really rude to me and he Said, ' don't ever talk to my wife like that again do u understand!' he did.

I absolutely belive that out of control rude children just grow into out of control rude adults, you have to have a discipline plan and it needs to be consistent but IMO that shouldn't need to involve smacking.

PECS can be very slow going. It's important that he's motivated to use them, so you should always start out with pictures of things he really wants, like toys or food, and then practice exchanging the picture for the desired thing over and over (if he'll tolerate it). The school should be coming up with different strategies for you to use in conjunction with PECS - it's hard for me to say what will work without knowing your son.

No. Only once or twice been tempted but that was more out of my own frustration and temper.

I used to get spanked when little and still remember it. Most times it was because of something my sister did, and I can still feel the indignation.

I agree that inconsistency is the worst thing in discipline thebody. That's part of the reason why I'm against smacking - most parents do it "rarely" so it's an inconsistent consequence that's very unpredictable for the child. If it's going to be used, and you're ok with it, then use it all the time. Thing is, most parents won't use it all the time because they know it's not right.

No. I was beaten regularly as a child. On the one hand,I guess I am testimony that being hit/smacked/beaten will automatically turn an individual into a hitter/smacker/beater (though I did have a fistycuff scuffle a long time ago) But I can clearly remember the absolute sheer terror of seeing that hand come towards me.

I smacked DS's hand once and instantly regretted it, felt awful. I have never done it since, nor would I.

It's just a small mainstream pre-school, although he has just got a place at a mainstream primary school for sept.

It's frustrating at the moment as the people that we see (paediatrician, speech therapist, etc..) are very busy and we only get to see them every 4-6 months. For example, the last time we saw the speech therapist she set us 3 targets, DS has hit all of them but I want to give him something else to push him further and we have had no communication from her for months! I don't even think we have another appointment booked with her at the moment.

The pre-school are good with him and he has 1-1 but other than a home-school diary to tell us about what he has been doing at school we hear nothing from them.

If I'm honest I'm really worried how he is going to cope at school.

Yes.

I have smacked/hit all all three of them. Oddly only since they got older (over 5).

I only do it when I've lost the plot. I know it's wrong.

Surely it's the reason they're being smacked?

I would smack my child on the hand if they were reaching for a hot drink/touching the cooker etc, especially if they had already been told not to touch.

I wouldn't smack a child on the bum though for any reason. I remember seeing a friend of mine when we were about 10 being smacked on the bum (her mum actually pulled up her skirt) in front of the school gates. I don't think I'll ever forgot the look of embarrassment on my friend's face, and other children (including me) staring with disbelief.
And my dad used to beat my mum and step-mum in front of me. So violence was nothing new to me as a child.

Saying that, my child is only 5 weeks old. So we'll see how I feel in a couple of years time eh?

Cailin exactly and I also think its interesting that first children seem to have been smacked more than siblings, I think that's testament to the idea that as a new parent the anxiety and stress is high but with subsequent children you are much more confident and in control.

By dc4 I was a totally different mum, loved them all equally but no confidence with dc1 so applied the smacking methods I was subjected to.

Another reason for first borns to feel hard fine by!

Sorry, in my previous post I should have put I am testament that being hit/smacked/beaten does NOT make someone a hitter/smacker/beater

No, never.
I can't ever imagine myself hitting a child.
I have found that other forms of discipline work best for us. I don't shout either although have raised my voice.

I work as a TA and was a teacher. If I can manage 30 children at a time without resorting to hitting the then I am certainly not going to hit my own child.

TBH I probably do judge people who hit though.