To expect Croydon University Hospital to treat me in a better manner than this?

[WhyAlwaysBoris]

This is very long, sorry. It is about the hospitals treatment of me during my pregnancy and miscarriage.

I really need some outside perspective- so many things have happened that seem rubbish to me, and I don't know if this is because they are rubbish, or if I have massively high expectations and need to revise them downwards.

At my booking in appointment the MW was strange- lots of odd things including crossing out the bit in my notes where it said there was a family history of mental illness on the grounds that 'depression isn't a mental illness'. I just ignored it and hoped next appointment would be better.

Second appointment at 16 weeks cancelled on the day it was supposed to happen as they had not realised the building would be shut for the Christmas holidays. I was offered a replacement appointment but it was after my 20 week scan.

I kept ringing to try and rearrange- more than 50 times in total, never answered. Left numerous messages, never returned. Eventually I left a message saying if they didn't ring me back within 48 hours I'd sent a written complaint.

Someone phoned me. I was told that the MW from my booking in appointment should have given me other numbers as the number she had given me was a line that was never staffed. Was told they had just taken on a lot of new people who 'weren't up to speed yet' and someone had been drafted in to sort things out.

They also said that if I had left messages they would have been answered. They maintained every message was logged in a book and I had never left any previous messages.

This put me in the rather ridiculous situation of having to offer to send it an itemised mobile bill to prove who was telling the truth- at which point they suddenly 'found' thee lost messages which were in the book after all. The lying aspect of made me very uncomfortable.

At my 20 week scan it was found that I had had a missed miscarriage and the baby had died between 14 and 16 weeks. I was induced but advised not to see the baby as it had deteriorated since it had passed away some 4-6 weeks prior to this.
If I had had my 16 week appointment it obviously would not have saved the baby, but I would have known weeks earlier and would have at least had the opportunity to say goodbye properly.

The PM suspected a clotting issue but could not confirm as the hospital lost the placenta despite the doctor insisting at the time of delivery that it was very important it was sent off (which including ordering a nurse to retrieve some of it out of the toilet so that it was complete). They still lost it.

The appointment to receive the PM results told us to go to an address that did not exist (the building, department and zone of the hospital all conflicted)- We were variously sent back to the place where we had had the scan telling us the baby had died, back to the place where we had had the initial meeting after the scan to explain the baby was dead, back to the place where we had had the booking in for the induction and finally to a fourth place where they sat us in a waiting area with a 3 minute video on a loop of a new born baby. By the time someone actually found out where we were supposed to go we were in a complete state.

We were told we would need blood tests to pinpoint the blood clotting issue, and the consultant said he would like to see us in 3 months to discuss the results- this would be in May.

Two weeks before the appointment I received a letter saying he would see us on the 31st August now instead of May.

I rang the consultant's secretary who said she would try and get me anther date and ring me the next day. She did not. I rang her the day after and she said I should be waiting for a letter. It was as if we had never spoken and she had never promised to phone me.

I got the letter yesterday morning and it was just the final straw- it became apparent why she didn't ring me. It is an earlier appointment, but not with the consultant but a much more junior doctor and in biro scrawled underneath they have written 'we have now cancelled your appointment with the consultant in August'. So we don't even get to see him.

If you have read all this, thanks for sticking with me.

I am tempted to complain but don't think it would do any good- by the time someone rang me about the 16 week appointment I had already sent the threatened letter of complaint and I was told this would be taken seriously and investigated and after the MC I would be emailed with the results so that I could choose when to read when I was feeling OK. I never heard from them again.

What should I do?

If it helps you to make up your mind, King's Maternity unit really is at the forefront of maternity research. It's routine to give you three scans there as of the beginning of last year, they do a third one in your last trimester.

Also the Harris Birthright Centre there do a lot of pioneering research and after they do it, it gets rolled out across the country but you get it first at King's.

To put it bluntly, if anything might go wrong, there's probably an expert at King's who will be able to help you or guide you through it.

Having said that though, St Thomas' is also marvellous and you also get the gorgeous view of London from the maternity ward. :)

Thanks WhyAlwaysBoris, she's absolutely fine now. Her leg looked awful at birth as it flipped the wrong way but it turned out to just be a positional thing where she had been lying on it funny in the womb. A few weeks later, it had straightened itself out without any intervention. Though we still saw consultant paeds, orthopaedic surgeons, had x-rays and ultrasounds!

:) at the view!!

The doctor got out his mobile phone to do an exam?!

Deffo speak to PALS, I'm a staunch defender of the NHS but in this case they didn't fulfill their responsibility towards you.

Sorry for your loss

And yes, definitely go through PALS.

One of my many jobs is medical roleplay and what you've described is absolutely appalling and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

Is your GP properly on side, Boris? You need someone who is completely committed to fighting your corner. If you were my DH's patient he would move heaven and earth to get you seen elsewhere, quickly (and to see the staff involved in your 'care' held to account). If it involves the GP making phone calls rather than writing letters, and calling in a few outstanding favours to get you an appointment, then so be it. You need to be put back at the centre of your own care. If your GP doesn't seem as bothered by your treatment as (s)he should be i.e. very, then please do talk to someone else at the practice. I can imagine that your mind is absolutely full of things at the moment, grief and stress and anxiety, but you really have every right to be angry at the way you've been treated AND every right to have things sorted out for you. The GP should be your partner in helping this happen. So sorry for everything that has gone on here.

Just to say I've had an impressively speedy email response from the CE. He says:
Dear Ms Hassled
Thank you for your email. The trust has an action plan for matnernity services and patient experiences are very important in terms of lessons learned and demonstrating the need to improve quickly. I have shared your email with our Director of Nursing.

John Goulston

He doesn't say if he's actually read the thread.

peanutbutter maybe i describe it wrong! the doc was using his phoneas a torch, wasn't actually on the phone! We just thought it was mad that was the only source of light they had and the poor nurse got it in the ear when she didn't know how to keep it coming on!

hassled you are a lovely person. I'm not convinced that they will read it though, please don't be upset if they don't-
'patient experiences are very important'-

Frozen NP i don't have one particular GP, ifswim. It is quite a big practice and so i've seen a different person each time, so don't really know them to talk to in terms of a plan of attack or anything. But they are all very nice.

It might be worth choosing a GP you liked and asking if you can see them for all your pregnancy appointments. They should provide continuity of care at your surgery for things that take more than a one off visit like a pregnancy.

What an awful time you've had. Just wanted to say I had my first baby at St George's which is busy and frantic but a good place to go in a crisis. They have excellent doctors there.

My second was born at the PRUH in Farnborough which was wonderful.

And I had an op at Kings, and my dad had heart surgery there, and they are wonderful too.

But I wouldn't go to mayday for so much as a cup of tea!

Good luck with your pregnancy.

Boris Just to let you know that several of the national newspapers are now aware of this thread. FX that a phonecall from one of them to the hospital media department might actually produce some results for you.

Posted by the Trust: We are so sorry to read of your poor experiences at Croydon and appreciate you have found it hard to come to us to talk about it.

Our senior team have read your posts ? and the supportive comments you have received from other Mumsnet users - and really want you to get in touch so that our Head of Midwifery Mary Fosbrook can meet you. It?s up to you if you choose to make a formal complaint but we really do want to get your personal details so we can carry out a full investigation.

Please ring our PALs team on 020 8401 3939 to make arrangements or if you would rather do it by email then use [email protected]. The PALs team will put you in touch directly with Mary.

No I understood what you meant boris
It remains highly inappropriate to whip your mobile out to use as a torch

Please get in touch as above talking through your experience and been acknowledged may help your grieving process.

You also need to be sure you are going to receive appropriate care this time.

And lastly to prevent other women having to experience what you have.

Take care of yourself

boris I am so sorry you had such a bad experience at Croydon Hospital. It is inexcusable and you should definitely make a complaint. If it was me, I would write a letter and send copies to the trust CEO, your GP practice, and the head of maternity services.

I had both my DDs at Croydon, when it was known as Mayday (or MayDie as someone else has pointed out - after my first DD, DH and I renamed it WillDie). Both experiences were pretty bad and I'm sure things happened that shouldn't have happened. As well as the big things that went wrong (left in second stage of labout for over seven hours, left in completely uncleaned labour room on my own with DD2 for nearly eight hours after she was born, being shouted at during labour for my waters breaking on the toilet etc etc), there were lots of stupid things that went on, much like your iPhone story. In my case, some examples included my DH having to hold a light so the doctor could deliver DD1 by ventouse (despite there being seven other people in the room, and me wanting him to hold my hand as I was very scared) and the MW only being able to find one stirrup instead of two.

Given all that happened with DD1, you may wonder why I went back for DD2 (and all of my friends who had their first DC there refused to go back unless they could go in the birthing unit). Well, in the hospital's defence, it has some amazing departments. I had gynae complications after DD1 and the gynae consultants are considered the best in the country. I cannot fault the care I recieved from them for well over a year, though I'll admit that I might not have had the problems in the first place if the care during labour had been better. I have also experienced excellent care at the ophthalmic A&E (it has consultants that also work at Moorfields) and the day surgery unit. But the maternity services and A&E leave a huge amount to be desired. So make your feelings known if you have the strength to do so. I wish I had been able to after DD1, but everytime I started writing the letter, I found it so distressing that I had to stop. But I really wish I had been able to find the courage to do it because the horror stories that come out of that place wrt maternity services are appalling.

Good luck with your current pg and with what you decide to do about the hospital. And please come back and update us.

Gosh Talltrees who are you???

Was it you who sorted out the John Lewis Bed Thread last month? :)

For the trust- gosh poor you trying to help me alll this time!

Actually what made it 'hard to come and talk to you' was the fact that you cancelled my appointment, due tomorrow, after a 3 month wait, until the end of august.

Had you not have done that i could have talked away!

I am waiting for my husband to call me back to decide whether i want to contact you.

I was on the JL bed thread and we got that sorted out the same day!

The power of MN should not be under estimated

So glad it sounds like someone is going to listen to you op. I spoke to my gp about the Dr's attitude when i was having my mc, i wish i had complained at the time.

Good luck and please let us know what happens if you decide to talk to them.

Hiya - I've not read the thread but I just wanted to say that I used to live round there and while I had my baby at the PRUH in Orpington, friends of mine had their babies at Mayday (as it used to be called.

It always has had an awful reputation we used to call it 'Maydie' and my friends' experiences were also awful, although not as horrendous as yours.

I don't know if others have suggested this but have you contacted the PALS team? www.croydonhealthservices.nhs.uk/patients-visitors/Patient-Advice-and-Liason-Service.htm

I'm so sorry about what happened to you and I hope someone gets their arse kicked hard over all of this and you are able to get some answers.

Okay - just read a couple of the above posts and see that the Trust is now desperately trying to claw back some sense of accountability and have also referred you to the PALS team. Good luck x

oh this is awful. Just awful. I have no idea what to say - having my own NHS troubles at the moment, though not on anything like this scale - but am glad to see the support you're getting here. Wonderful people. Good luck with this pregnancy.

Please ring PALS asap . They can help you with your complaint and may also be able to get you a appointment with the consultant .

Dear Boris, I just came across this thread. I lost a child myself last year having given birth to her at 24 weeks. She lived for 3 weeks. I think I know how shattered you are with the loss of your child, let alone lack of support and complete abandonment by the medical care providers. Thinking of you and wishing you all the strength for the future.

OK i have emailed them asking for an apointment with the consultant and a copy of my notes.

Not asking for the moon on a stick, but up till now it has been beyond them,
so we'll see.