To expect Croydon University Hospital to treat me in a better manner than this?

[WhyAlwaysBoris]

This is very long, sorry. It is about the hospitals treatment of me during my pregnancy and miscarriage.

I really need some outside perspective- so many things have happened that seem rubbish to me, and I don't know if this is because they are rubbish, or if I have massively high expectations and need to revise them downwards.

At my booking in appointment the MW was strange- lots of odd things including crossing out the bit in my notes where it said there was a family history of mental illness on the grounds that 'depression isn't a mental illness'. I just ignored it and hoped next appointment would be better.

Second appointment at 16 weeks cancelled on the day it was supposed to happen as they had not realised the building would be shut for the Christmas holidays. I was offered a replacement appointment but it was after my 20 week scan.

I kept ringing to try and rearrange- more than 50 times in total, never answered. Left numerous messages, never returned. Eventually I left a message saying if they didn't ring me back within 48 hours I'd sent a written complaint.

Someone phoned me. I was told that the MW from my booking in appointment should have given me other numbers as the number she had given me was a line that was never staffed. Was told they had just taken on a lot of new people who 'weren't up to speed yet' and someone had been drafted in to sort things out.

They also said that if I had left messages they would have been answered. They maintained every message was logged in a book and I had never left any previous messages.

This put me in the rather ridiculous situation of having to offer to send it an itemised mobile bill to prove who was telling the truth- at which point they suddenly 'found' thee lost messages which were in the book after all. The lying aspect of made me very uncomfortable.

At my 20 week scan it was found that I had had a missed miscarriage and the baby had died between 14 and 16 weeks. I was induced but advised not to see the baby as it had deteriorated since it had passed away some 4-6 weeks prior to this.
If I had had my 16 week appointment it obviously would not have saved the baby, but I would have known weeks earlier and would have at least had the opportunity to say goodbye properly.

The PM suspected a clotting issue but could not confirm as the hospital lost the placenta despite the doctor insisting at the time of delivery that it was very important it was sent off (which including ordering a nurse to retrieve some of it out of the toilet so that it was complete). They still lost it.

The appointment to receive the PM results told us to go to an address that did not exist (the building, department and zone of the hospital all conflicted)- We were variously sent back to the place where we had had the scan telling us the baby had died, back to the place where we had had the initial meeting after the scan to explain the baby was dead, back to the place where we had had the booking in for the induction and finally to a fourth place where they sat us in a waiting area with a 3 minute video on a loop of a new born baby. By the time someone actually found out where we were supposed to go we were in a complete state.

We were told we would need blood tests to pinpoint the blood clotting issue, and the consultant said he would like to see us in 3 months to discuss the results- this would be in May.

Two weeks before the appointment I received a letter saying he would see us on the 31st August now instead of May.

I rang the consultant's secretary who said she would try and get me anther date and ring me the next day. She did not. I rang her the day after and she said I should be waiting for a letter. It was as if we had never spoken and she had never promised to phone me.

I got the letter yesterday morning and it was just the final straw- it became apparent why she didn't ring me. It is an earlier appointment, but not with the consultant but a much more junior doctor and in biro scrawled underneath they have written 'we have now cancelled your appointment with the consultant in August'. So we don't even get to see him.

If you have read all this, thanks for sticking with me.

I am tempted to complain but don't think it would do any good- by the time someone rang me about the 16 week appointment I had already sent the threatened letter of complaint and I was told this would be taken seriously and investigated and after the MC I would be emailed with the results so that I could choose when to read when I was feeling OK. I never heard from them again.

What should I do?

I would agree with thatisall. They should be on top form if you pursue a complaint against them, but is it worth the pain a stress?

Oh, and congratulations!

Im an NHS worker and always hear unreasonable complaints and unrealistic expectations that makes my blood boil.

But OP you have every right to feel upset and let down by the lack of compassion, shoddy treatment and staff clearly not knowing their arse from their elbow.

As soon as you feel up to it, complain.

Due to the mistakes they have clearly made they should do everything possible to book you in to see the consultant especially because you are expecting again.

Hope your doing well now OP and keep us posted on your progress.

I'm so sorry for your loss and the crappy way you have been handled. As someone who had a baby at this hospital and was appalled and distressed by the ante and postnatal care (labour care was fantastic I have to say) I encourage you to pursue your complaint unless you feel the stress will upset you more.

If you do wish to pursue, I would recommend you do the following,

Write everything that has happened to you, dates and action/inaction down clearly and concisely then underneath list the outcome you want e.g referral to a consultant during this pregnancy and results of blood test. Take this information to your GP. Give it to them. Refuse to leave until you are satisfied with the outcome of the appointment. If Croydon have a PALS service, send a copy through to them as well.

You may wish to drop your complaint but you need to let your gp know you are pregnant again and are awaiting results regarding your previous miscarriage.

Best of luck. Keep us updated.

YANBU, OP. And I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby. xx

I opened this thread, cynically expecting an unfair slating of the NHS from someone whose expectations were just set too high.

I'm wrong. You have been 'cared for' dreadfully at a time in your life when you needed excellent sensitive professional care. Please complain. I would welcome a complaint if I managed the dept. PALS etc are very good at helping you co-ordinate and present an effective complaint.

Oh and forgot to say congratulations!

I agree with the suggestions to get a new referral for this pregnancy. You need to be able to separate your past experiences and the dealing with any complaint from moving forward with your current pregnancy.

Hello whyalwaysboris, firstly my sympathies to you and your DP and what you've been through. Congratulations on your pregnancy and I hope it is a wonderful experience for you and your DP.

From your original post and those that followed all I would suggest is to do whatever feels right for you. You are not "handling [anything] badly". You sound to be handling it very well, by that I mean with dignity and courage.

If the experience of the hospital for this pregnancy would be too much you have every right to request another hospital, you also could complain although I understand this may be very upsetting for you to have to rehash everything. By complaining you may get some answers about why you were treated so badly and some assurances that no woman will ever be treated in such a manner again. This may help with mental preparation for your pregnancy and may give medical professionals a chance to explain exactly how you will be looked after.

Whatever you choose to do, I'm wishing you all the happiness in the world.

My last post appears to be mumbojumbo so unlike me

When I said 'is it worth the pain a stress' I meant is is worth the pain and stress of forcing yourself to attend the same hospital when you could just move to a new one and have a 'clean start' for your new pregnancy.

I'm so so sorry for your loss and for the awful treatment you received. It's one thing to have the healthcare system make lots of mistakes but to compound that by denying or ignoring it just adds insult to injury.

You are absolutely not overreacting or being oversensitive. I work in the NHS and this number of errors is, I think, fairly unusual (at least I hope so!).

My advice would be to ring your local PALS (Patient Advice and Liaison Service) - they exist to help out and give advice when things go wrong. I would, if you feel up to it, make an appointment to go and see them in person, and document with them, everything that you have written down here, along with dates.

You need to not only make sure they understand how badly this has left you feeling, but also that you are newly PG, and NEED to know what the outcomes were, in order to keep this pregnancy as safe as possible. This seems to me to be of great medical urgency for you.

Good Luck, and again, I'm sorry for your loss

thank you so much for the replies, it is much appreciated. I was worried I was doing that thing when people have a loss and then focus on something as the recipient for all their anger rather than being angry at the actual thing iyswim.

Ok So it seems that the MN collective wisdom is to ask to go to a new hospital for this PG and to complain to PALS if i'm up to it at Croydon....i might have a think about that overnight, but i feel much more balanced about it all now so thank you

I found your post very hard to read, I am so sorry for you, I can't imagine the hell you have been through and I hope that this pregnancy goes well. I suggest you contact the hospital's PALS office in writing, you could cut and paste much of your post as you have written it so well. They must then address your complaint within a given time frame. It may stop the same happening to someone else. I hope you are given all the care and support you need this time round.

I am so angry to hear what you've experienced on top of your miscarriage.

If/when you feel strong enough, write to the Trust and ask for FULL copies of all information they hold on you (there may be a charge for this). Then, make a complaint. Do not enter into communications with PALS unless you would like advice or signposting to other Trust services. If you want to make a complaint, go straight to the Complaints Team. Think, though, what you want from your complaint - an apology? to be seen by more experienced staff this time 'round? disciplinary action against those who you feel treated you badly? I think if you can be clear about this BEFORE starting the complaints process, you will feel more satisfied with the process at the end.

What has happend to you is horrendous, and I'm so sorry you had to experience that.

It seems like you have already taken on board the excellent advice, but I'm another that thinks you should change hospitals and contact PALS for help with a complaint. I have found them to be fantastic in the past, very sympathetic, easy to deal with, and they call back when they say they will.

Its a good idea to go to your GP, as whenever you see the hospital your GP will be notified, and you can use the GP as a kind of base where everything should be coordinated and you have one person that is following everything. If you have to make a nuisance of yourself at the GP, then so be it. You and your baby are worth it.

I feel horrible saying this, because it shouldn't be neccesary, but if you can possibly afford private healthcare then you should look into it. Even if you have no intention of using it, it can help just to know where you could turn if you had to. Just knowing what is available, where, and for how much has given me a much better sense of control over medical stuff.

It helped a friend of mine immensely once, when after two MCs, she thought she was going through another but was made to wait longer than she could cope with for a scan. They found the money to have just one private scan, which put their minds at rest and saved them worrying needlessly.

Hi NMM, thanks for replying. Other posts seem to be keen on PALS, is there a reason why you say i should avoid? And do you mean to ask for my file before i complain? is there a reason?

Really all i'd like is to see the consultant , get my test results, ask his recommendations on meds etc for this pg and then bother them anymore, don't really care about people being told off or apologies etc (don't believe they would be genuine tbh).

The letter the other day was the final straw as i just feel scared that I need particular meds for the clotting problem (apart from aspirin, which i'm taking) and the results are just sitting there with no one to interpret them

sorry meant, and then not bother them anymore!

I can recommend East Surrey as a much better experience. I had a horrible time at Croydon, think I'm still traumatised by it now years later and it was nothing like you have gone through. I'm so sorry for your loss too.

Wishing you the best of luck in your new pregnancy and if you decide on East Surrey, I hope you receive a complete contrast in care as I did and are amazed that 2 hospitals can be so different.

Hi Sunnymum, have just looked up where it is and not very feasible for me, (I'm in south london) but st georges and st thomas both would be ok so i'm going to ask for one of those. thanks for the recommendation, though

WhyAlwaysBoris - as others have said, you have been treated very badly and with complete lack of sensitivity here but as you say, the vital thing for you now is retrieval of your test results as you need to know if there is anything you should be taking regarding the clotting problem that was mentioned.
Can your GP not help here?
Is s/he aware of what you experienced?
The GP should be able to phone the Consultant directly and often Doctor to Doctor communication yields faster results than patient to Doctor (sad but true).
I have experience of using PALS also and found them to be very helpful - in my case it was to get an earlier appointment than the one I had been offered after my original was cancelled.

[email protected] or telephone: 020 8401 3210.
Given your circumstances, they may be able to help you retrieve your test results speedily.

OH GOD IT ACTUALLY GETS WORSE

I spoke to gp who said no probs referring me somewhere else and they would chase up blood results. however, said as consultant had asked for me to go and have bloods at croydon epu when i got a bfp i should go and have them done there initially. So my plan was to go, get my bloods done and then go to Pals in the hospital.

EPU is walk in open 9-11am first come first served kind of thing. Got there at 8am. Looked on big directory in entrance hall for epu, it said blue zone, first floor. Wandered round blue zone, first floor for half and hour, just couldn't find it.

Kept walking past signs to the different departments and all said EPU, blue zone floor 1 but it just didn't seem to be there. Eventually someone in the blood department (i was just randomly walking into places by this point) told me she thought it had been moved to near maternity so to try there.

Went to the maternity section, wandered around, couldn't find it. By this time it is 8:40 am, and am getting worried i won't get there in time to be seen today. Ask again, and it is suggested that i try antenatal.

Go to antenatal which is a bit grim as it is where i was last time, still can't find the bloody epu. By now i am in tears as it is all coming up again. A nice nurse asked me why i was crying and walked me into the car park so she could point out the right building to head for. Got there at 9:05.

The woman on the reception desk told me the EPU had been in that building for at least 2 years now. Two years!! And they haven't even been bothered to change the signs. Do they think women go to the EPU for a laugh, don't they realise they would only go if worried and wandering around for over an hour is quite distressing...i just don't know what is wrong with these people. Too upset to go to PALS or do anything else by that stage, just came home. I have to go for more bloods on wednesday, so maybe i'll have more courage then.

That's just awful I can't believe how poorly managed that hospital is and how they have managed to get away with it for so long.

I have never done anything as unmumsnetty as offer a hug, but if I could reach through cyberspace and give you one I would.

thank you for the very unmusnetty but needed hug

I'm so sorry to hear what a dreadful experience you have had. I hope things go better for you this time, when you feel up to it you should definitely complain.

I am so sorry to hear of your experience.

I had my dd there at Mayday (or May-die as it used to be known by prior name) in 2003. 70 hours in established labour, epidural sited wrong and botched episiotomy. Horrible, horrible midwives who spent most of the time belittling me and moaning. I was absolutely suicidal afterwards and traumatised beyond belief. I wrote to PALS and complained. I found out they had a support group at the time for women who had suffered traumatic births at the hospital (not sure if its still set up).

Its a terrible place. Please complain as loudly as you can. I moved away to a new area and I am having an elcs with my second baby in 3 weeks due to the way I was treated there.

They also told my gran she was lazy and fat when she was admitted with stomach pains only to be discharged without proper investigations. We pushed the gp for tests and discovered she had terminal bowel cancer. She died 6 weeks later.