To ask if you and your DH/DP have foreplay before PIV sex?

[Thistledew]

So many depressing comments come up on threads about women who have woken up to find their partner having sex with them to the effect that "well maybe he was confused, he could have thought you were happy to have sex with him whilst you were asleep/half asleep".

Do women who post these comments not see foreplay as part of having sex? For me and DP, sex always starts with kissing and even with the most passionate quicky, some sort of mutual squeezing/stroking/fondling of erogenous zones.

For me, there is no way that my DP could be confused as to whether I was consenting to sex or not. My lack of enthusiastic participation would be a real giveaway.

AIBU to think that there must be lots of women having pretty crap sex if they don't even expect kissing to start with?

Am I missing something or do some women have the ability to go from zero to turned on instantly? Or do you just have men with really small dicks so you don't need any sort of lubrication before they stick it in?

Some of these are older threads, and I know there have been more, but these are the ones that have come up on a quick search:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1429023-Need-clarification-re-husband-and-I-was-asleep

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1428091-Sensitive-question-about-H

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1219286-This-is-playing-on-my-mind

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/974344-confused-about-sex

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1079505-please-help

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1087296-not-to-have-sex-with-DH

Perhaps that's the problem then

By posting here, you're preaching to the converted.

You might have got more understanding if you'd posted in that topic

OK, catgirl, if that is how you see it. I wasn't throwing that accusation at the women who say they are unhappy with being penetrated in their sleep, but at the women who try to say they have no reason to be unhappy with it.

What would you say to women to help them work through this issue? To get them to think about their partner's intentions when he penetrates them in their sleep? To help them rationalise their own feelings and have the confidence to act on them?

What would you say to a woman, whose partner said to her "Why are you making a fuss? You liked having sex earlier. My ex, she liked to do it this way. Don't be such a prude"?

I know this has been commented on already but - PIV? Really? Is that a term which is now used in RL?

Who thinks of these things?

? Worra. You post on both topics, as do most of the users of this forum.

Some of the posters on this thread have also posted on the 'sex sleep' threads in Relationships.

What would I say?

Well it's not difficult is it Thistle
You are not shedding any amazing new conclusions

I, like 99% of people, would tell a that a partner who says such things is not respecting her, is minimising her feelings. That she does not have to accept any sexual activity that she does not want or like. That sex without consent is rape, that she needs to resolve this and there is plenty of support to help her do that, including, should she require it, the law.

What I wouldn't do is start a confused, unhelpful AIBU thread banging on about my own sex life and my own DP whilst throwing about silly assumptions and accusations.

If there is a thread every 6 weeks why doe yours go back to 2010. Surely there would be more current ones.
You came to aibu with that op to encourage women who are engaging in sexual activity they don't like. You expect someone with such an issue to feel comfortable talking to you, only to then find put you were trying to manipulate answers, well done. That will work a treat.
I like quite rough sex, I also get very turned on when I wake up with DJs cock inside me. I am turned on instantly, I love sex with Dh anytime. Hope that answers the question for you.

Jolly good. There are people who have posted on this thread who would (based on their recent posting history) disagree with you, and come into the 1% that you talk about (although sadly I think that the 1% is a gross underestimation).

I still find it surprising that you have been so hostile. Unfortunately, I have mistaken your hostility for the sort of opposition to the position that both agree on, which all too frequently comes up on threads where a woman is asking for help.

When threads like the ones you describe appear in AIBU, the poster is advised to move the thread to relationships where people are more likely to be give constructive advice.

Yes I post on both, but since 5 out of your 6 links were started in Relationships, I still think you would have got a better response from there.

I haven't even read the OP but YABU to use 'PIV sex'. It is 'sex' or 'sexual intercourse'.

AKMD - the point has been made above. If the very definition of 'sex' is just penetration of a vagina with a penis, does that mean that lesbians don't have sex?

Yup. Glad someone else thinks it's ridiculous.

I'm going to step away from this thread now as although I think it has covered some useful points, it now seems to be going nowhere fast.

I would just like to make a few things clear:

The people I was accusing in my OP of having crap sex are the posters who post on the threads where women have said they are unhappy with their partner penetrating them in their sleep to say "My partner does it, therefore it's wrong to call it rape". These posters don't seem to take into consideration the woman complaining has said she is unhappy.

For me, having sex when I am not fully aroused, both physically and mentally, is crap sex. Being penetrated whilst asleep is for me, not just crap sex, but bloody awful sex. I accept from the responses to this thread that this is not the case for every woman, and genuinely did not anticipate such vehement responses telling me that this amounts to good sex in their relationship. I don't doubt those posters' assessment of the enjoyment of this aspect of their sexual relationship.

I still stand by my conviction that if you never kiss, or have any sort of foreplay, then you are missing out, and probably having crap sex. However, if you are happy with your sex life, then I am not going to beat you around the head with a copy of the karma sutra and tell you that you are doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, some of the posters who have responded to this thread seem to have struck off on the idea that I have accused people who occasionally have sex whilst one partner is asleep, or without any foreplay of having crap sex. I accept that the sentence containing my AIBU could be construed this way, but I think that from the context of the OP as a whole, it can be seen that my beef is not with the women who enjoy this sort of sex, but with the women who minimise the feelings of people who are unhappy with 'sleep sex'.

So when posters have complained about me accusing them of having crap sex, I have assumed that they are the same people as are doing the minimising. I apologise to catgirl1976 and DPrince who has been caught up in this confusion, and have since clarified that they would never make the sort of minimising comments that are frequently seen. It is clear that it is possible to enjoy being penetrated whilst asleep and still realise the importance of the consent and enjoyment of both parties. It may have been helpful if those posters could have added some comments in support of the points I was making regarding consent, as it would have clarified their views on this thread, but I realise that not everyone can post about every issue.

For other posters who have not disavowed any agreement with such minimising comments, and still say they enjoy penetration whilst asleep, then I really hope that you will think again about why there is such a distinction between your enjoyment and another woman's unhappiness, and how that may indicate a lack of consent. I hope that all of the comments on this thread will give you food for thought.

And to any woman who has read this, and is still unhappy with the being penetrated whilst asleep, I hope you find the courage and words to say that it is not acceptable to you, and to make the changes in your life to make it stop.

Well winding your neck in now doesn't change the fact that you clearly think that there is some sort of rape allegation to be made when what women are experiencing is sex that you wouldn't like.

Now saying 'oh yes, I mean by my wide sweeping statements a very precise definition of a woman being penetrated when she actively doesn't want to be and has pre-defined it as a no-no but it keeps happening for malicious reasons not misunderstandings'.

But I don't believe that you won't keep trying to convince people they have been raped when they don't think they have been and their partner doesn't think he/she has raped either.

I am glad that after claiming all sorts of stuff you now acknowledge that your post was just designed to re-position another argument made by someone else that you wanted more argument on, and had a position on that you wanted to impose on others.

I wonder how many of those posts cited were launched/fuelled by you in the first place?

Thank you Thistledew. I accept your apology although I find it incredible you would require me to clarify that I would not make "the sort of minimising comments that are frequently seen". A strange thing to assume of someone without cause, but nonetheless your apology is appreciated and accepted.