childrens centre attracting the wrong kind of mothers

[Morph2]

i'm not BU as i'm not too bothered (more disappointed) about the decision but others are very angry. Local surestart (only built last year) ran a group for walking to school age every week. Has been scrapped due to funding issues (ok i understand that its a recession after all).

HV unofficially told my friend the decision was because the session was "attracting the wrong kind of mothers". We've started attending another session run by the council which is abit of a trek away (they have started to charge a £1 a session but its worth it, i drive so i can get there), and when i filled out my new started form i had to tick (for monitoring purposes) if i was in one of the groups they specified, i wasn't so i didn't tick, just thinking maybe if enough people don't tick this session will be stopped too :(

A point about 'hard to reach' groups /people - those who stand to benefit most from support - is that it costs more and takes a lot more effort, prorportionally, to reach them than it does for the 'easy to reach' groups who come forward voluntarily because they are actively looking out for opportunities. It is still a better use of resources. Quality versus quantity.

If you are going to prioritize and actually ask mums(like we did) what they want I'm guessing help re dealing with discipline and parenting issues,how to cope with the long summer holidays on no money and feeding a family healthily on a tiny budget,providing quality play sessions where you can get ideas and socialise will come out above baby yoga and massage.

As nice as baby yoga and massage are if you have a family at the point of crisis I think they are low on a long list of priorities.

I think actually asking mums what they want is key here,it's not about stereotyping.

I think a lot of people don't understand the idea behind CC in the 1st place and how in Government their continued funding is being justified. The argument for them has always been that by helping struggling parents and kids early on, ,you prevent later problems and save money. The type of problems they want to prevent are truancy, poor educational achievement, criminal activity, unemployment of dcs when they grow up, etc.

There is a lot of research to show that if you can help parents develop a good relationship with their dc, help them improve parenting and make sure the dcs get the stimulation they need, you can reduce the amount of kids who go on to develop these problems.

There is also research to show that certain types of parents with young dcs are more likely to have dcs that develop these problems e.g. parents in poor areas with mental health problems, young lone parents, etc. This doesn't mean that all these parents will have these problems - some will be brilliant parents from the start, but the risks of problems are increased.

And that is why CC are having to target those families. It is not about saying that other parents don't struggle and need support. Its about saying that these parents if they are struggling are far more likely to have dcs that go on to develop further problems/issues that become more difficult and more expensive to tackle as they get older.

Right, so you build centres at a cost of billions, turn away the people who want to use them in favour of people who clearly don't want to, then shut it down because its empty?

Yep, thats Britain for you. Jolly well done.

margery, they sound like a shower of shit. I was a young single mum once upon a time and would have welcomed a sure start centre, but as it was, at that time, M&T groups were for "other people" and my HV never even recommended them. But i know exactly what you mean, i felt very left out at ante-natal classes.

15 years later i had another baby, not a young single mum, but not middle class either and i do get what you are saying. I went to a homestart group and it was great. But it was "infiltrated" by yummy mummies. I can definately recognise elements of what you talk about on your post. I can't imagine wanting to talk about those books either - id rather boil my head. I actually spent most of my time talking to the play leaders, one was a lovely girl with no children of her own (she was paid not a volunteer) who had soemthing liek 12 siblings She was just lovely and i did mention to her that i thought homestart was for mums who were struggling/ not well off - she said it was for everyone as everyone needs support. There was a younger mum there and i did try to talk to her, but she was quite hard work, but i made the effort. I did notice that the other mums didn't bother. I had PND, but kept it too myself. I know one of the other mums had it too. What made me sad was that the young mum stopped coming and when i asked, the play leader said - oh she has gone to a different group that suited her needs better. I don't think it was a "class" difference, but i think it was just an age difference to be honest.

The Homestart group was fab, they were so good to us and i do remember thining sometimes that some of the other mums were taking advantage, but that was unfair of me really. I do remember being taken on a day out to a very expensive local zoo and thinking that some of the mums should have paid for themselves. We couldnt have afforded it so were so grateful for that day out as we had financial difficulties. I did give back the £2.50 they gave us for coffee as i felt that we could at least pay for our own drinks. The yummy mummies were very keen to grab it though, which i thought was out of order as they could have said, no keep that and put it to something else.

Waffling now and contradicting myself too

Support should be for everyone but different people need different levels of support and different types of support. Just as different groups of people are going to have different interests. Working mums have different needs to SAHMs and probably different topics of interests. Single mums will have different issues to those who are married. Saying that, as parents we all have SOMETHING in common.

I get so confused with children's centres as the ones we have where I live, are usually referals from SS or HV's because the children have needs making the parents need some respite or the parents having problems and they get childcare while the parent attends apps or works with the staff to get help.

Sorry, I haven't read all of the thread (so maybe it's been answered previously). Does everyone have to fill in a form? I only ask because I use my local family centre and they only know mine and my daughter's first name. They have no other details apart from what I've mentioned in passing.

I'm just wondering how they know who is the wrong type of mum/ the right type of mum etc?

In my local family centre and there's never been anything to fill in. They don't formally know where I live, if I'm a single parent, my age, if anyone is working in the house, educational background, health issues etc?

Absolutely no idea why my post was deleted.

Oh and by looking around and chatting to the other mothers, there seems to be a wide range of people there. It's not all one 'type'.

I do know that to use our nearest Surestart you have to be referred from another agency eg social services etc.
This is a recent development, anyone used to be able to go.
Sad state of affairs, eh?

There are certain markers that get the CC brownie points, for example if someone lists themselves as a smoker and then tells the centre they have given up because of support they received there, that's an official success. I imagine they have to write up case studies of the good work they are doing, so reporting improved mental health, healthy eating and use of early years learning materials and libraries outside the centre might indicate they are moving in the right direction. Help centres quantify their good work in this way and I imagine they'll find it easier to hang on to their funding.

September - You call it a family centre. Is it a children's centre run by the local authority is it something else? Sometimes charities run family centres and these would have different "rules" depending on funding

Preplexed - Is it a sad state of affiars? Surely if money is tight then the support should go to those who need it most? Being referred by SS would mean that you really need this support.

Yes Groove I agree,I was referred by my hv,I wonder if they're going to stop doing that now sooooooo what exactly are they going to do with the struggling mc mums then when hvs feel they need support?Nothing?Spend a fortune picking up the pieces when they crumble?

You don't have to be a certain class to find parenting hard.I have a degree in early years and found 3 under 18 months bloody tough.

I think it depends which area they are in , ours in in the middle of a council estate I don't think the MC mummies would go there tbh.

Margerykemp, if it's any comfort I had all that when my dd was born - I was 19. I thought - and still do - that those women were rather up themselves as a rule, although I did make one or two really good friends in the end by sticking at it. I would keep on trucking, if I were you, as the good ones are out there.

Room is a great book and we had a webchat with the author here on MN - ask one of the yummy mummies if you could borrow their copy as it sounds interesting, and that might open doors.

Ah maybe not, I've just looked at the website for it and there doesn't seem to be any mention of Surestart so perhaps it's different. It seems to be mainly funded by the county council.

It would be a shame if it shut or they started to apply rules on attendance, as everyone mixes with everyone, there doesn't seem to be much segregation.

I am intrigued as to whether this children's centre is one whose set-up I had a hand in last year - built in a nice area, attached to a school, fairly middle class area, however not far from one of the most socially deprived areas in the country.

Where do you live op?

Oh I agree eats this support should definitely be targeted to where its most needed.
I just think it's sad that other parents can't access the facilities. Even if they charged it might be a possibility. As it stands, family a and family b could be friends, live next door to each other, have babies the same age and be unable to attend the same groups.
I have no idea how any of this could be solved btw, it just doesn't seem right somehow.

Heffley - CC are not just about supporting parents who are struggling though. They are about reducing the risk of dcs becoming long term unemployed as adults, criminals, etc. They use research and broad risk categories of parents to target those most at risk. Most struggling mc parents do not have dcs at risk unless another risk category is relevant

Just because you are not in one of the government target groups doesn't make having a baby any less of a shock.

The Surestart centres are there to be used so why shouldn't they be an open resource?

I suffered from PND after having my DD and found it very hard to cope with my loss of professional working status. I have since met many other "middle-class" mums who were in the same position.

I know it's not as much as a basic need as some families have, but why not provide help and support for everyone dependant on the local demographic? Things like going back to work, adapting to new/life work routines, applying for part-time/homeworking roles, general PND support.

Some well-off mums need help and support too, and it can be very hard to ask for help when you are viewed as an otherwise successful person.

It shouldn't really come as a surprise that funding is being cut and that CC's are concentrating on target groups. It's what the Conservatives said they would do if they won the election. I think it was Practical Childcare magazine that asked all the main parties outright what they would do if they were in power.

It doesn't matter how fantastic a CC is or how well used it is: if they are not reaching their targets, they will fail their OFSTED inspections and either have their funding cut or close down.

Fwiw, I entirely agree that they should be accessed by everyone. There is no longer the funding or the political will to facilitate this.

Someone earlier made the pertinent point that domestic abuse and child abuse occurs in well off families, too.
I was horrified to be told at a Child Protection course that there are families where they know children are being abused and they can't afford to do anything about it because the families have access to top legal advice and will take the County to court, even sue. I would imagine that this is even more of a problem with so many services and funding being cut.

They don't provide help and need for everyone because of money. Many services are targetted. For example, there are more govt funded youth clubs in disadvanatged areas than well off areas. Doesn't mean young people in well off areas don't neeed support. But it is about helping those most in need who couldn't afford to pay for the help themselves

Tanith - Of course child abuse, etc happens in well of families as well. When the issues is child abuse - actually more often families neglecting kids/really struggling - SS are usually referring the family to a CC. This decision is not made on the basis of wealth, but of need.

Our children's centre seems to be for under 25's only. There's a young parents coffee morning for parents under 25. Nothing for parents over 25. The baby massage says a baby massage class for young mums and their babies.

Whenever I go past there seems to be a group of young mums outside. I never went with the boys as it wasn't built then. But there were other groups in town that never seemed to be age related.

What happens if you turn 25 while you are attending? Instantly thrown out?