childrens centre attracting the wrong kind of mothers

[Morph2]

i'm not BU as i'm not too bothered (more disappointed) about the decision but others are very angry. Local surestart (only built last year) ran a group for walking to school age every week. Has been scrapped due to funding issues (ok i understand that its a recession after all).

HV unofficially told my friend the decision was because the session was "attracting the wrong kind of mothers". We've started attending another session run by the council which is abit of a trek away (they have started to charge a £1 a session but its worth it, i drive so i can get there), and when i filled out my new started form i had to tick (for monitoring purposes) if i was in one of the groups they specified, i wasn't so i didn't tick, just thinking maybe if enough people don't tick this session will be stopped too :(

I'm a trainee teacher with an interest in social deprivation etc (being a skint single mum might have provoked it slightly) I have access to my Uni library til the summer so if you need a specific article feel free to pm and I'll see if I can grab it. One of the schools I've worked in is in process of linking up with CC and looking at lots of strategies for targetting help where it's most needed, I find the whole topic compelling, but mostly I am motivated through having formed bonds with children in v tough predicaments. I know very little about PND though. Good luck!

that was for km btw
no need to invent a caste system just, it's live and kicking

I will have access again soon because I'm a business post grad student but I'm on sabbatical at the moment and we got the grant. Thanks for the offer ninah - very kind of you :)

Btw I'm not against, or begrudge, more needy people being invited to baby massage classes, I'm just objecting to the whole class tension thing.

Think I'm going to bed, I'm not making any sense!

I understand your point justone and I agree with you.

nice one km! yes I agree too just

I tried to sign up for baby massage at my local surestart, to be told they'd just changed it to be for young mothers and fathers (of all ages) only.

I learnt from a reliable source that this was because too many middel class mums (like me I guess, although I was skint!) were using the classes, and we were not who they were trying to target.

So a young mum from a priviledged background would be allowed to do baby massage, but a 30 year old struggling mum from a deprived background would be turned away?

Wow this thread really kicked off. I think the point is that cc are for everyone's use BUT the services are in place to aid those who might not normally access these services because of their situation/ background.
I'm sorry but if you are turning away needy parents because your class is full of parents who are capable of accessing other services, what good is that. If you have means to travel to, pay for and access services for your children you should. What's wrong with focusing services on the children who need it more?? Missives of research shows that background, class and family history has huge indications on what sort of life you will have as a child and then pass on to your own child. Governments know this and target services where they will have the most impact.
Cc don't like saying no to any parent in need or want of a service but sadly they have targets to meet too.

Should say my cc is aware of me and our situation which is pretty hard at times. But because I'm not their target group, I get nothing either then again I haven't seen a Hv in years either. I could be in serious trouble and struggling and they wouldn't know

Yes CrumpettyTree, because they can't really say "we don't want middle class parents here!". It was the easiest way to filter us out.

I don't blame the Children's Centre, it's a real shame there wasn't more funding. In my area you do get a load of relatively well-off mums who book a full schedule for their new babies - swapping a structured work life for a structured week of baby workshops and classes. They (we!) are well informed, know how to make the most out of the services available.

I don't see anything wrong with that. However if the CCs are short of funding and are meant to target deprived DCs then I can see how the might want rid of us privileged mums clogging the place up! Although I was skint, I'm pretty resourceful and well educated. I'd rather a young mum had access to the services than us.

Actually I'd prefer more of our taxes were spent on CCs and other socially things and would happily pay more taxes to this end, but that's a whole new argument!

I should perhaps mention that although there are a lot of well-off mums in the area I used to live in, it also has some of the most deprived areas in the country.

one thing is confusing me, some posters said their cc only took referrals from sw or hv.

but ime it is the other way round, as in the cc staff, through building a relationship with families and seeing them on a day to day basis and gaining their trust refer the families to sw and hv. they invite hv to sessions to meet families etc.
families who would have never even gone to see the hv or who need sw involvement but didnt have it got it because of cc.

an example is my friend in an abusive marriage, her husband drives her everywhere and stays with her etc the only place she would go by herself is stay and play, even then she would be dropped off and picked up. and sometimes he owuld wait outside.

so the cc staff got the sw, womens refuge workers, police, lawyers everything to meet her in the center, while her dh thought she was at stay and play. the kids would be with the workers in the stay and play and the mum in the office with the services.

without cc this would not be possible. without the relationship of trust she had built with the cc workers, due to regular interaction this would not be possible.

Frankly if the CC is having problems with particular groups comandeering resources, I think it's more of a marketing problem than a rationing one.

If you think through booking systems, types of courses, and how you communicate with families beyond the simplistic flyer/website axis (i.e. get off your backside and go to see people in particular supermarkets and so on), then you can shift dominant usage from one group to another if you really want to.

But it's easier to blame funding and whinge about stereotypical yummy mummies ....

One centre near me wanted to get more father involved, so they started Saturday morning sessions with a bacon sandwich break at half time. They were advertised in local pubs and garages. Takeup was actually pretty good. Now that's what I call marketing.

Mmmhmmm! And how do you propose to prevent well-informed, affluent parents from picking up on this marketing as well?

Pubs and supermarkets are not yet segregated according to class, after all.

I have been to the childrens centreva few times and found them very friendly. Although reading through this perhaps thats because i am a "target" person. We moved areas recently and they seemed overjoyed to see me rocking up with my 5dcs althogh i have never been asked my income or anything else of that sort.

The only problem with the centre is that there is very little there, i went to a 6 week baby massage course which was great and i went to a breastfeeding group but i was the only one who turned up so that was a bit awkward ( aparently breastfeeding rates are very very low in my area). Other than that there isnt really anything else there for mums - theres a grans group and a dads group but no mums group for some reason. There are also no other playgroups around in walking distance and since i have no car the surestart is pretty much it.

There's a different clientele in Aldi/Lidl and Waitrose, for example. But I wouldn't 'prevent' anyone, I would just think about what people in my target group needed to know. For example sessions on 'outdoor play with no garden' would not really appeal to people with a garden. 'Stretching your family credit money' would not appeal to people with salaries. 'Beginners family cookery' is not going to appeal to someone who does the dinner party circuit, IYSWIM.

Our CC opened when my dc1 was about 6m. It was excellent. There were groups on 4x a week to start with, and within 2yrs there were 2-3things on a day. They then stopped the most popular stay and play session. Then the baby group changed its time so it fell over most babies nap time, and once they could stand they weren't allowed to go. It incorporated a MW weighing session though.

Now, the only groups they have are targeted groups, no stay and play or music or anything, apart from a music group at a local community centre run by them.

They have:
Young parents
Non English speakers
Stop smoking
SN group
Dad Saturday morning once a month
Baby group with weigh in

I think it is good they have these groups, but it is all well and good encouraging these different families in but if you can only offer one group for that one group of families I'm sure that its usefulness is limited. So, a non English speaking parent goes to the group, feels comfortable there, they know the staff. If a member of staff then said "why not come along on thurs, for our music/messy play etc" they might be quite likely to go, but if the staff member said "there is a playgroup in the church hall half a mile away" they may feel uncomfortable with finding a new place, with people they don't know and unsure what the 'rules' of the place were iyswim?

I go to my local Waitrose: I'm a working class childminder. I know middle class people go to Lidl. It only takes one person to see an advert and spread the word.

Of course CCs have provided those services as well as the baby massage classes. Many provide PND classes, job adverts, parenting classes. They were intended to be accessed by all classes, race, creed and religion: a Centre for all children's services.

Now funding has been cut and the current Government wants them to target certain groups.

It isn't a marketing problem: ours has the same Dad's Saturday group, by the way.
It is a funding issue.

Absolutely Tanith, it's a funding issue.

It's a cut pure and simple. IMHO

A cut with blatant disregard for the wellbeing of ALL mothers with babies and pre-schoolers. It's a complete no brainer that PNd, breastfeeding difficulties, addictions, domestic violence, parenting problems etc can affect all socio economic groups. Even if they affect one group more than others (no idea of the stats) they can potentially affect anyone. You can't define the most needy with statistics as there are always a minority that defy the trend, the best way of identifying need is to make cc universal and let people come if they feel they need it. Futhermore, if they only help the 'most needy' then they are still excluding people with some degree of need.

In my opinion, they probably know damn well that group they are targetting are least likely to use these centres, therefore they know they can justify pulling the plug on the funding and gradually do away with them. So I agree with the OP.

PLUS, according to the royal college of psychiatrists:

"You are more likely to have PND if you:

have had mental health problems, including depression before
have had depression or anxiety during pregnancy
do not have support from family or friends
have had a recent stressful event - e.g. death of someone close to you, relationship ending, losing a job."

www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfoforall/problems/postnatalmentalhealth/postnataldepression.aspx

No mention of postcodes or being entitled fo free school meals or any other wank generally used to define deprivation and need.

BTW I am in one of the groups they are targetting so have no bee in my bonnet about being excluded.

OK so the govt has a target group.

What is their target outcome and how do they measure it?

a)Reduce smoking?
b)Increase breastfeeding
c)Reduce domestic violence
d)Increase employment
e) Raise ability of children on entry to school?

Do people want this ? (seems a silly question perhaps but the people in a) b) d) are exercising choice here? No?)

Toothbrushthief

No the target group is children - it is meant to be early intervention with broad groups of families where the children are likely to be at greater risk to health, safety, educational failure, dropping out of school, crime, ASB etc...

It might (arguably) be parents choice to smoke or to not read to their
children (although that in turn is influenced by their life chances) buy it is not the childrens choice.

Hmmm. Breastfeeding support is an interesting one. I've been involved in some NHS consultations about bfing provision and support. The one thing that was agreed were the benefits to mother and baby and reduced future costs to NHS because bf babies are statustically less likely to suffer conditions such as childhood obesity (although it's worth pointing out there's a higher instance of breastfeeding initiation among the more affluent and educated so it may not be that breastfeeding is causal but symptomatic iyswim). However, where are the bfing drop-ins in my PCT? One a week unless a bank holiday for 50% of the area, servicing well over a thousand new mothers per year. The other 50% has 8 drop-ins servicing a similar sized area because they are "more deprived".

But this is the kicker: bfing initiation rates are significantly higher in the area that has much less help so you're more likely to start, so more likely to need support (I forget the percentage of women who need support in first 6 weeks but it's significant) but you're less likely to get it. Instead you have support in places "to encourage women to take up breastfeeding" but the reality is with bfing support women mostly decide pre-birth. There's little point putting extra support in for something people aren't doing but neglecting those who need help.

The problem in many areas is low initiation rates and the solution has been shown to be education in pregnancy and well before. Not more bfing support postnatally but the decisions aren't about clinical need they are about politics. If I hear one more NHS commissioner say there's a clinical need that will reduce costs later but "we just can't get funding for this area because it's not deprived" I will do myself a mischief.

Our CC is very, very good. They do have target groups that they try to attract to the centre, and I know they find it hard because some people do view them as being spies or busybodies before they've given them a chance but I don't think they give the impression they only want families who fit those targets to attend. They welcome everybody and try to organise groups and events to suit everybody

Margery I'm sorry you had a bad experience but can I ask what you talked to them about? I was very shy when I first started going, and even now I find it hard to be the first to start a conversation. I used to just follow my son about and feel uncomfortable because everyone seemed to know each other and nobody really spoke to me.

And then I realised that I was the problem. I was coming across as unfriendly rather than shy, and why would people make an effort with me when I wasn't making one with them?

I'm not saying that you were doing the same but maybe you would have found more in common with them if you had started speaking to them about something that interested or was relevant to you.

There was a younger mum at our group and I'm sure she was looking at me the way you were looking at those mums. I thought she was thinking I was just some old married cow to ancient to bother with. And she probably thought I was looking at her the way you say those mums looked at you. And both of us probably would have said we had nothing in common. Until we got talking and realised that for all our differences we were both first time mums with kids a similar age, both going through similar issues with them and had a lot to talk about.