childrens centre attracting the wrong kind of mothers

[Morph2]

i'm not BU as i'm not too bothered (more disappointed) about the decision but others are very angry. Local surestart (only built last year) ran a group for walking to school age every week. Has been scrapped due to funding issues (ok i understand that its a recession after all).

HV unofficially told my friend the decision was because the session was "attracting the wrong kind of mothers". We've started attending another session run by the council which is abit of a trek away (they have started to charge a £1 a session but its worth it, i drive so i can get there), and when i filled out my new started form i had to tick (for monitoring purposes) if i was in one of the groups they specified, i wasn't so i didn't tick, just thinking maybe if enough people don't tick this session will be stopped too :(

Lisa and Lewis have my sympathy. They are at the mercy of public suspicion/criticism of their work (and thus engagement) whilst policy set by the suits dictates how they are funded

the lady at my surestart toddler group said that while they were there for target groups they wanted a good mix of parents so there were different role models for everyone to interact with

Our health visitors ran a new mums group with baby massage, nutrition, keep fit for new mothers etc. I was middle class but living very much pay cheque to pay cheque on beans on toast at the time but they wouldn't have necessarily known it. I had a fancy pushchair because it was given to me, DS wore fancy name brand clothes (that I bought at a car boot sale). I went partly because they sold formula really cheap (I was supplementing my FtT baby) but it was how I met most of my new mum friends that I really badly needed too.

I'm always surprised at how underused our cc is. I have never been to any groups but I have asked to use the sensory room for ds, which I dont like doing as I don't go to the groups but they're always happy to let me, there's a booking system but everytime I call they tell me it's constantly free. I'm very much working class, the room gives me chance to
Let ds play in a safe soothing environment so I'd be happy to make a few quid donation everytime i go. I figure it would cost me that at a soft play hell hole.

However We were pretty much told in my baby massage class that we weren't the people they were aiming the class at, that it was mums who wouldn't do things with their kids. I don't think this is at all based on income as like I said I'm low income. Just on willingness.

I hate it when they open a ss in a non-targeted areas then wonder why non-targeted families turn up and (shock horror) use the sessions

It makes me mad tgat just because you are on benefits or being hit by your partner you don't need to need the support. Going from working 12 hours a day in a high pressured environment to 24 hours at home with a baby is just as isolating, lots of mums need support and are made to feel that they shouldn't need it because they are not in a targeted group.

not on benefits

Some families will never let themselves be reached. Same problem with schemes like bookstart - where my mum lives they were distributed through libraries and it was only the ones who didn't really need free books who actually picked up the packs. Short of targeting individual homes and shoving the satchel through the letterbox, what can you do?

I was on the committee for my C&FC, and ran a cooking class which was attended by people who genuinely needed it (ie people who couldn't cook for their DCs and wanted to improve their health). From what I can gather, people were referred to the course by HVs. We did have some who never showed up, but it also wasn't filled by mums who could already whip up a roast dinner etc.

It's easy to make assumptions about areas, poverty etc. My town is divided into about 10 clear districts. Mine is overall the wealthiest district (only overall though, there are obviously variations within each area, but here poorer people like me stick out a mile). BUT it is also the district with the highest incidence by far of PND. So parents need our centre but for different reasons.

(by 'not needing free books' I mean those who have loads already, who use libraries etc so a couple of freebies were just to add to the collection, rather than those children who have never seen a book)

Much of the problem comes from how funding is allocated. Say that the government decides that X is a social priority. They allocate central funding to LA's to address X. LA put in place a service that they think will work. However, in the end, the people that use the service aren't the people targeted. Therefore they need to do something different to address X. However, the only way to fund the different service is to close the first one, which, whilst it may not be solving X is still having benefits. Therefore the actual beneficiaries are annoyed but as they are not as "in need" as the intended beneficiaries, that's the way it has to be.

I had twins shortly after my first, and hence had 3 under 3. I was told by loads of people that I could get help from the local sure start centre, and a volunteer might be able to come & help me out for a few hours a week. In the end tho we were told we live in the wrong area, too middle class I guess.... Middle class or not, I've struggled and struggled for a year now, had pnd, spent most of everyday indoors because I couldn't face trying to go out with them all. I might live in an area which isn't so deprived, but I needed (still do ) help.

I went to a BF cafe at a Sure Start centre last week & if I'd been made to feel unwelcome there I would have been in pieces: I desperately needed the support!

However I'd feel a bit odd/ashamed paying a low amount for baby massage /baby yoga etc when I know I could afford to pay more for a private class. But if the people it's targeted at aren't using it & it's right on my doorstep...it would be hard to say no.

There is a clear divide at ours. I find it a little uncomfortable, but the parents who are eligible to get the classes for free sit together and the ones that pay sit together.

On my first visit (first aid course) I sat right in the middle, I ended up sitting with the paying parents (I was one too) simply because they were more chatty and spoke to me more.

Our CC's and the One O'Clock club run lovely, well attended groups. I wonder what they do differently? Is it because the CC is attached to the local primary school, so can reach a lot of parents? Plus the courses they run aren't just for parents with preschool children. Parents at the school can go. Lots of things like computer skills, sewing, ESOL, etc. Personally I think it is really important for a sense of inclusion in the community to be able to mix working and middle class. Where else would these groups mix? It breaks down the social segregation. And while I agree that there's a number of parents on council estates whose lives are too chaotic to be able to get involved, or who don't want to mix outside of their own friends/family, there's still plenty who are keen to get the best they can for their children. I wonder why these centre's aren't reaching them?

I have heard of areas where cc's get parents to fill out a form and if you tick yes to the question about having a garden they ask you to leave. Our one o'clock club used to have that on its form (been ages since I've been) but they never asked us to leave.

Completely agree with posts that Children's centres should be for everyone - when babies arrive everyone needs some kind of support that they didn't used to, your life turns upside down.
Seems to me that if the centres are not reaching the 'target' groups, it needs to be working hard to establish those links with those target groups in the community by being different and much more creative.
I was told by one of the Surestart employees that the 'target groups' didn't trust the centres as they thought they were going to report back to social services - so how do you build up this trust, there are ways I'm sure.

When Surestart began it was aimed at hard-to-reach families. It was then expanded out to everyone. This government want to take it back to the first principles, which involves crowbarring previously welcome mothers out of the door

Because obviously if you're middle class your child sleeps brilliantly, you never get PND and your boobs are magic ones which will solve all their own BF issues by texting your mobile the answer to any questions you may have

Oh Vickles, what a lovely person you sound. I'd pay to avoid prejudiced people like you.

I was told to go to my local one years ago when they thought I had PND,it was a godsend and saved the NHS £1000s I'm sure as with exhaustion from 3 under 18 months it was an amazing support.

I guess I'm m/c,an ex teacher etc.They asked me to go on the parents forum and I helped to interview staff and vocalise some common thoughts,requests etc which we all had.I believe I gave a lot and some of my views,points,experience and questions helped to get better staff,courses,sessions etc.We all have different life experience,confidence etc and it's important all are represented.

I don't believe in social segregation.Mixing all different types is highly beneficial for all.

A mum is a mum what ever the "group" and 9 times out of 10 we all have the same/similar needs and requirements re support.A new baby/toddler doesn't come with a manual and can be bewildering for all.If some mums are to be excluded shouldn't there be other provision for them which will surely cost more?

I think it will be very sad if this policy continues.Having said all that I think those not on the lists in receipt of benefits(like in schools for funding of trips) should pay.I'd have been more than happy to.

The Johnson's live in that council estate! Sorry, not for me.

Well, I suppose it's like CB cuts. Everyone finds it more expensive when they have children, but some families' income is assumed to be sufficient.

Everyone needs more support when they have children, but those with a greater income are assumed to be able to pay for private classes etc.

If you agree that maximum help goes to the most vulnerable, then prioritising that group in the provision of services inherently means that those who do not fit the profile have to be excluded.

If a universal service was affordable, then inclusion/exclusion wouldn't be an issue. I doubt that it is affordable, and until it is then I would prefer to see support targeted to the most vulnerable, and accept as part of the price tag that it also means that more affluent families will need to hunt for non-taxpayer funded alternatives.

As staff we were always very clear that the forms might not get completed by all parents and we would not push for them to be, especially on first visits.
I'm sorry this thread has been a shock to some and just because you do attend a cc it doesn't mean the staff think you fall into a group. I attend my local cc.

My work is smack in the middle of one of the worst council estates and we still have the yummy mummies coming from the nice side of town coming over. Council estate does not = horrible people!

One of our local groups went from being open to all mum (and babies/toddlers) to "by invitation only." Oddest thing ever IMO.

But the squeezed middle won't have any spare cash to do anything.They will feel isolated,will be more at risk from PND and will thus cost the NHS more.

Supporting all new mums isn't a luxury,it should be a basic.