childrens centre attracting the wrong kind of mothers

[Morph2]

i'm not BU as i'm not too bothered (more disappointed) about the decision but others are very angry. Local surestart (only built last year) ran a group for walking to school age every week. Has been scrapped due to funding issues (ok i understand that its a recession after all).

HV unofficially told my friend the decision was because the session was "attracting the wrong kind of mothers". We've started attending another session run by the council which is abit of a trek away (they have started to charge a £1 a session but its worth it, i drive so i can get there), and when i filled out my new started form i had to tick (for monitoring purposes) if i was in one of the groups they specified, i wasn't so i didn't tick, just thinking maybe if enough people don't tick this session will be stopped too :(

real; we don't turn anyone away, unless they are genuinely not allowed at the service, such as a mum over 21 at our young parent group, or a parent of one child at our twins+ group for example. Other than that, we aim to get the targetted families in to the other groups as well as every one else (and in your case, you'd be a target to us due to the overwhelmed/isolated part of your last post)

Perhaps I'm being a bit dim but I thought these centres were for anyone that wants/needs to use their services?

I have never turned a parent away unless they arrive at a group that is already full, even then we try hard to fit them in or promise them a space next time.
Sadly a whole group of yummy mummies is likely to put off some parents and so it's nicer to have a good mix.

essentially we are, mythical - but to get funding for the future, we have to "prove our worth" and so prove that we change the prospects for a certain number of a particular range of families.

It's very complicated but practically, on a day-to-day basis, everyone is welcome.

I think it is also a case of leading a horse to water but not being able to make it drink. The services are there and everyone knows about them. If people choose not to go but to stay at home, then that's their prerogative? Is it just easier to "keep an eye" on these families if they come to the cc, to save money on hv home visits?

They are for anyone within the community however as myself and lewisfan have said, we are set massive targets we have to reach including reaching target hard to reach families. The idea being if we catch them early enough they are less likely to end up in child protection type stuff. If we can gain good ground with families we can also stop the cycle we often see with family types.

Tbh our local one seems a wee bit pointless, I remember looking at the classes/groups they offered when ds2 was born, there was a language one and a baby massage class maybe a couple of others, but the majority seemed to be for babies under 1, where older children were not allowed......

Yeah really helpful then, the stay and play thing was also at a really odd time, I can't really remember now.

Also not everyone is interested in baby massaging and singing songs in front of strangers, I do see an awful lot of bugaboos bike chained to the buggy park though.

Nothing about keeping an eye and Hv rarely have time for home visiting now either. It's more about giving parents more tools to help them parent, more support, building community relationships and improving children's and parents learning skills.

OK I'm finding this all very interesting, to hear more about how these centres are run. I had an inkling that some but not all of the centres targeted certain 'types' of people, and that's what my hang-ups were about. I'd hate to be assessed on my parenting ability, or for my DCs situation to be assessed, and found to be wanting in some way, so for those surestart centres which do target their families in this way, the conditions of entry are negative, and the initial screening is judgemental, then there's the whole issue of having all this personal information documented and stored on file. Those are the main reasons why I've avoided surestart. Of course it seems like I may be completely mistaken, at least about those centres which are inclusive.

I hope I'm not offending anyone with my wifflewoffle...

I get what you're saying but personally it would just make me feel like I'm not welcome because I don't have "special circumstances" and I would just like to go to the groups to socialise and make friends.
Is it all categorised between "yummy mummies" and "disadvantaged mummies"?

Anoy, we use our professional skill to make the assessment a positive experience.

We don't assess everyone who comes in; only those that need it and we make it a positive message. Not "you're crap, we're here to improve you lest you damage your children", but "hey, lets see if we can make life a bit easier and better for you and the children"

the assessments aren't difficult; most of them happen through conversation and relationship building with the staff, rather than form filling or documenting stuff but obviously there are families we need to support more and that does require forms and tracking... but again, we do it positively and supportively.

how do you mean cagetorised?

You're welcome because you have children under 5. That's first and foremost.

This doesn't happen at my local children's centre where everyone is welcome.

Have mothers actually been asked to leave groups because they are too middle class????? I am struggling with that one - who on earth makes the decision that someone is too middle class, based on what criteria and how do they know anyway??? Do you have your shirt label examined on entry - Primark you're in, Boden you're out.

This is so bizarre...

most boden in my centre is from the local Heart Foundation shop

you cant assume that because someone is middle class there are no child protection issues though can you?

that is ridiculous.

In my CC everyone is welcome and it is a mix. The staff get to know each family and build a relationship of trust from which they can then point out other services the family might need, and the parents trust the staff and are able to share issues with them.

They offer 5 stay and plays a week, singing, keep fit, 2 prenurseries, baby club, weaning, health visitors, childcare qualifications, workshops, esol, childminders group, job center out reach, and much more, and it has been a real life line to a lot of people, including me.
just because your middle class doesnt mean you automatically know what to do with a baby, or can drive, or can afford other stuff, or have support etc.

which is why 99% of the Centres don't assume such things :) I certainly don't and challenge colleagues when they might make such ridiculous statements!

My local children's centre runs all sorts of sessions. Some for mums with PND; very young mums; babies with gastric problems; children who may have speech therapy needs; breastfeeding mums; single parents etc. etc.
If you fall into any of the categories you are welcome regardless of your economic situation.
They also run messy play sessions; buggy walks; outdoor play for toddlers; baby massage and baby signing etc. Everyone and anyone turns up for these sessions, because who knows when a parent who is struggling to cope will chat to a staff member during a buggy walk who will then point them to the other groups and services.
The more families who walk through the door, the better the chances of reaching the ones who need extra support.

I had similar thing
Had ds 4month hv check at sure start and commented how nice it was and I'd not realised how much went on there (1mile walk away)
She said it was aimed at different people, ie not me (ft worker) I said surly everyone should be able to attend even if paid voluntary fee, better than leaving empty classes etc , she said to catch people not likely to do that, I was just annoyed that as I'm main earner in house on paper v comfy but during mat leave not so much

There were loads of good antenatal classes advertised (which irritated me as the nhs local provision was 1 30 minute Tuesday lunchtime session, so I payed 150 for Nct weekend (was v good but not the point!)
Seems odd they would rather have empty places than take nominal donations

I think the point that is being made is that everyone is welcome, Tryharder, but that if there aren't enough parents who tick the single/in receipt of certain benefits/low education/not having English as a first language or whatever boxes, depending on the targets for that area, then the funding gets pulled, because it is dependant on tackling social exclusion identified in particular ways.

we're not allowed to ask for people to contribute - the most we can do is put an honesty pot on the worktop when we offer hot drinks

something about public money / preferential treatment - I don't know, but we're not allowed to ask for donations. The only exception is when we buy in a service, such as our First Aid course run by St Johns - we charged families £5 per person to attend to help with costs.

This pisses me off. Surely the service is there for everyone? Middle class mummies also pay their taxes, so should be able to use the services available like anyone else.
I used to go to a SS centre, and it would not have, for one minute occurred to me that it wasn't aimed for my kind. Just cos I had a bit of money (or dh works in a good job). I paid the voluntary contribution every time I attended mother and baby/toddler, music, bf clinic etc.
I talked with all the mummies, and there were a mix of mummies. With one thing in common.
runs and hides

Sorry if somebody's already done this but I read a policy document last year saying Sure Start (is that the same thing?) was failing to reach target groups so funds would be reallocated to other initiatives. Pardon my scepticism about whether the same amount of money will be allocated to the new stuff ...

I'll try and find it tomorrow, if anyone desperately wants it.

It's shocking to hear that fab, new, well-equipped centres are being closed down.

I can well believe it. I've been to several meetings recently with NHS and childrens' services (I'm a lay person) and they don't even bother to hide the fact that they can only get funding for those considered "deprived". You'll note it's nothing to do with clinical need, or the cost benefits of early intervention... it's all politics.

That said, the HV could do with being a bit more diplomatic. Funding decisions are not based on whether the right/wrong families are reached - it's whether the target families are seen to being reached.

I hate the ghettoisation that's occurring all over the place. There should be a mix of different people. Social cleansing where only those considered to be anything other than middle class are welcomed is stupid and damaging.

Where were the target mums? Maybe they didn't want to go as they felt there was some stigma attached or that it was some hamfisted attempt to patronise them/tell them they needed assistance/good advice/monitoring in order to bring up their children whereas the MC mummies didn't? If the authorities are telling them that in effect they are the only ones in need of support, it makes support look bad.

Hi I work at a cc and agree with everything Lisa says. All mums and dads and carers are welcome to us and its lovely we have a good mix.

Hard to reach fanilies are called so for a reason and its government targets that need to be met to secure future funding. Its about helping children and families to improve outcomes for children, and some families need more help and therefore are targeted. if your coming along to a singing/baby massage group off your own back because you know it will benefit your child and put you in touch with other parents your already on the right track itswim. Some families wouldn't have even considered attending such a group for lots of reasons so we like to offer it to them through home visits and parental support. Lots of outreach work is needed to encourage hard to reach families use our centre and its paid off because now we have a good mix of families.

As for people not agreeing with forms, the forms are the evidence that needs to be submitted to secure the funding. We had some parents who came from further away to attend a bf group who refused to fill out our e start form as it was breaching their human rights! I can assure you staff arte not sat reading through your answers and judging/gossiping they are logging them as fast as they can so they can get away from the paperwork and get out there and work with families face to face.

People are quick to slag off surestart/childrens centres but they are a real lifeline to some families and they do make a difference to childrens lives.