To think some Catholics don't understand their own faith

[zombiegames]

Okay I admit a thread about a couple of other threads.

I was brought up Catholic, but am not one now - but I do understand how the way you are brought up as a Catholic gets under your skin. But it does make me angry that other people here who say they are catholics, appear to have so little understanding of their own faith.

The pope is not just someone whose opinion you can dismiss if you are a catholic. He is christs representative on earth and he is infallible - that means he can't be wrong. This is an absolute key part of the one true faith. It is not a side belief that can be conveniently ignored.

So when the pope says for example that gay marriage or using condoms is wrong, that is a belief of the catholic faith and can't just be dismissed. If you say this is wrong, you are saying that the pope is not infallible and thus you are questioning an absolute key part of catholicism.

Why does this anger me? Because a lot of people who are not and have never been catholics don't really understand catholicism as can be seen on here when non catholic parents who send dcs to catholic schools froth on here about what their dcs are being taught. Posters who post about being catholic and non homophobic, are misrepresenting catholicism to those who don't understand it. If the pope says something, then that is part of the catholic faith and is what catholics should believe.

And sorry I probably ABU as I know this is a bit of a rant, even though it is true.

I also don't understand how someone can call themselves a catholic and yet disagree with fundamental principles such as the homophobia.

Homophobia is not a fundamental principle of the catholic church.

You can call yourself a catholic if you were baptised as one. You are one then, you can't easily unregister yourself. Even if you don't practice or attend mass or sacraments, they still have you.

Yes sorry the original post was badly framed. I am not homophobic and am pro gay marriage. And I think some posters are right, catholics do understand their faith but some are happy to ignore the contradictions. Just a few points.

1. Yes you may personally know a great priest/nun whatever. This doesn't make catholicism any more valid or right than knowing personally a bad priest/nun. That is falling into the same trap as people who criticise catholicism on the basis of knowing a priest who was a paedophile, etc.

1. I think catholicism needs to be judged as an institution and a key part of that institution is the pope. I find some of the pronouncements of the current pope disgusting.

1. This is not a bashing catholics thread. I was reading posts where catholics were saying on MN that they are pro gay marriage, etc and against the catholic church. I think some of teh arguments made on other threads were contradictory, hence this thread. If catholics post their views on MN I feel entitled to respond. That is not IMO catholic bashing. I just felt that non catholics were being given a very untrue representation of catholicism as a tolerant faith - which imo it is not.

1. Homophobia is not a central tenet of faith. But the catholic church as a whole is consistently anti gay, both in what it teaches and what it lobbies against - gap adoption, gay marriage, etc. Since it makes this part of its teaching so public, it is hardly surprising if non catholics see it as a central part of the faith.

I unregistered myself, thank you very much. I am now an atheist, thank God

I care because I care about the truth, I guess.

Anyway, this hasnt got very far, has it? You're all still catholics and I still think it is absolute hypocrisy to use culture as a reason to basically make it up as you go along.

On a lighter note

N'ight, folks.

P*ss off, faith is personal.

Apocalypsethen, I am baptised, confirmed and my middle names are Mary Theresa!(Am not joking) But I definitely do NOT consider myself a catholic.

Zombiegames, I totally agree with your last post.

Apocalypsethen, I am baptised, confirmed and my middle names are Mary Theresa!(Am not joking) But I definitely do NOT consider myself a catholic.

Zombiegames, I totally agree with your last post.

I unregistered myself, thank you very much.

Good for you. I understand it's quite difficult.

But I definitely do NOT consider myself a catholic.

Lots of people don't, that wasn't really the point I was making. The point is that once you are baptised and don't unregister yourself, you are (in the eyes of the catholic church) a catholic, and even if you don't agree with everything, you have the right to call yourself a catholic if you want to. It's one of the reasons they're so successful. It's hard to be excommunicated, they rarely do it, and they make it difficult for people to leave. So the association tends to be rather loose on committing to the details of some teachings and people tend to find their own way and drift along quite happily, bringing up the next generation to act in just the same way.

Nobody has said the Catholic church isn't anti same sex marriage. It is. They have said that in their experience, you are unlikely to experience explicit homophobia in a catholic school, or on a personal level from many individual Catholics.

And it's OK that you view that as hypocrisy. But I wonder why you care.

You could alternatively view it as a positive thing that some people you thought were default homophobes are not.

Wow, I really am going to go and have a glass of wine now, but Fallen, can you you please accept that I do care, for reasons already stated. Why do you care so much? Jesus.

"I think catholicism needs to be judged as an institution and a key part of that institution is the pope."

Zombiegames who is the ultimate leader of the Catholic church, is it the pope, or is it Jesus? They have a rather different approach to various things including homosexuality.

'This is not a bashing catholics thread'

If you say so.

OK. Your only reason is "honesty is important to me" which I don't understand as I am honest about my disagreement with various teaching of the Church. Your other points are about the teachings of the Church and the Pope, and therefore irrelevant to the question.

But you're right, it is an umproductive discussion for sure.

Which is a bit sad.

They have a rather different approach to various things including homosexuality.

What did Jesus say about it?

Nothing I think. Not explicitly.

Vatican II instructs Catholics to follow their conscience, even if their beliefs are not consistent with church teaching at the time.

I think that the recent media stories regarding the petition opposing gay marriage legislation bears this out. No one went to the government saying "all the Catholics in the UK oppose this legislation. And AFAIK, no one told priests and schools that they must tell Catholics to sign the petition. Instead, Catholic institutions were asked to convey a message and give those in opposition to the proposal information regarding the petition.

Um- I went to a catholic school, we were taught that being gay was a sin. I don't imagine that much has changed in the 14 years since I left.

Um- I went to a catholic school, we were taught that being gay was a sin. I don't imagine that much has changed in the 14 years since I left.

I wasn't. Mind you, it was a lot longer ago that 14 years...

Your experience, my experience.

we were taught that being gay was a sin

Um, (irritating, I know) I also went to a catholic school where being gay wasn't mentioned. And interestingly, being gay isn't a sin according to catholic doctrine. Acting on it is.

I was baptised Catholic, majority of family are staunch catholics but honestly, I never actually paid much attention to it.

I knew the general gist, but was missing a lot of information on their core beliefs. Tbh I wasn't ever concerned with it either. But now I am older and have done my own research into it I'm not overly enthusiastic about Catholicism as a religion. I believe that the Pope has very strict views but it is possible to be catholic and not agree with him on every point.

Anyway wasn't it Dara O'Briain who said that he's Catholic but doesn't believe in god - but even none belief can't stop him being catholic

I wasn't taught that being gay was a sin either and I left school over 20 years ago.

As a Christian, I'll be the first to admit that I don't take the church's current stance on everything as gospel. But I do find the idea that someone could disregard the declarations of the pope that they don't like a bit odd; that would be a bit like me disregarding anything that Jesus said that was a bit difficult for me.

This is the passage from the Bible which the Catholic religion gets its belief that their pope is the ultimate authority.
"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.? (Matthew 16:18-19)

As I understand it, the argument is that each successive pope has the same rules applied as the original founder of the church. That is a core tenet of Catholicism. The pope is not just a figurehead, but a conduit between Earth and Heaven.

For those that do disregard the official stance of the pope and/or the vatican, I'd be interested to know how you rationalise that.

Thisisanickname, I addressed this unthread. Vatican II instructs Catholics that where their conscience conflicts with church teaching, they should follow their conscience.

I was raised catholic but am not catholic now because I believe in Gay marriage and condoms are frickin awesome

I hate all these 'I'm catholic and support gay marriage'

How?

You're actually just a shit catholic. If you want to stand up for gay marriage and things like contraception, then leave the faith and stop deluding yourself

Sorry, upthread.