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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think some Catholics don't understand their own faith

741 replies

zombiegames · 29/04/2012 10:07

Okay I admit a thread about a couple of other threads.

I was brought up Catholic, but am not one now - but I do understand how the way you are brought up as a Catholic gets under your skin. But it does make me angry that other people here who say they are catholics, appear to have so little understanding of their own faith.

The pope is not just someone whose opinion you can dismiss if you are a catholic. He is christs representative on earth and he is infallible - that means he can't be wrong. This is an absolute key part of the one true faith. It is not a side belief that can be conveniently ignored.

So when the pope says for example that gay marriage or using condoms is wrong, that is a belief of the catholic faith and can't just be dismissed. If you say this is wrong, you are saying that the pope is not infallible and thus you are questioning an absolute key part of catholicism.

Why does this anger me? Because a lot of people who are not and have never been catholics don't really understand catholicism as can be seen on here when non catholic parents who send dcs to catholic schools froth on here about what their dcs are being taught. Posters who post about being catholic and non homophobic, are misrepresenting catholicism to those who don't understand it. If the pope says something, then that is part of the catholic faith and is what catholics should believe.

And sorry I probably ABU as I know this is a bit of a rant, even though it is true.

OP posts:
ThisIsANickname · 29/04/2012 22:14

DioneTheDiabolist Do you have a source for that? I'd like to read up on it (I find theology fascinating).

Original poster
zombiegames · 29/04/2012 22:17

Agree Kayano

OP posts:
Northey · 29/04/2012 22:23

kayano, I don't think you'll ever find a catholic who claims they are a good catholic. It's kind of part of the ethos.

Codandchops · 29/04/2012 22:25

Kayano, actually I think you will find that Vatican Ii have me the RIGHT to follow my conscience, therefore I am not "a shit Catholic" as you so eloquently put it. Okay?

I am Catholic and proud to be AND I will openly disagree with the Catholic church when my conscience tells me they are wrong.

I

Codandchops · 29/04/2012 22:27

This thread like all the other pro or anti Catholic threads is now going round in circles so am leaving it here and hiding it.

Original poster
zombiegames · 29/04/2012 22:28

Dione is vastly oversimplifying what Vatican 2 said around conscience. Vatican 2 was a very controversial one. But the bit about conscience is really talking about imo where there are differences of opinion within the church or views that are clearly open to change in catholicism. The church has very very consistently said that being actively gay is wrong though. The most liberal it has ever got is to talk about loving the sinner but not the sin - hardly being non homophobic.

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 29/04/2012 22:28

I can't, as I can't link or cut and paste on this, but if you google dissent in the catholic church you should find it.

I was taught about it at school. We spent a term of RE learning about and discussing this.

boringnickname · 29/04/2012 22:29

I am also a catholic and proud, i dont practice, my parish priest could bore for england and i think God will forgive me that one. I have lots of issues wiht the CAtholic church too, but the catholic faith is my faith so those issues do not detract from that.

Original poster
zombiegames · 29/04/2012 22:29

But cod you are right. Nobody is going to change their mind here.

OP posts:
inabeautifulplace · 29/04/2012 22:31

I hate your hate, Kayano.

ThisIsANickname · 29/04/2012 22:32

Have done some precursory research on it, and I have found this from Lumen Gentium, the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (produced by Vatican II). One quote I found particularly interesting was:

"... And the faithful are to accept (the pope's) teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent... that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking." (LG n. 25)

If I am reading this correctly, the conclusions made by Vatican II actually reaffirm the pope's authority as head of church and reminds the faithful that his word really is dogmatic law and should be adhered to by followers of the faith. But I couldn't find anything about when your conscience disagrees with church proclamations. So, as before, if you have any additional information for me to read, I'd be glad of it.

Original poster
zombiegames · 29/04/2012 22:35

vatican2voice.org/
Tells you more about Vatican 2 nickname.

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 29/04/2012 22:35

Not at all Zombie. A recent article in the Redemptorist magazine discussed how the churches teaching on gay sex would have to change when science eventually proves that homosexuality is inherent in biology.

Society consistently said that gay sex is wrong. This has changed and English law changed only 50 years ago to reflect this.

The catholic church consistently said that mass should only be conducted in Latin. This too has changed.

Original poster
zombiegames · 29/04/2012 22:39

Even if it was proved that homosexuality is inherent in biology that doesn't mean the catholic church has to accept that gay relationships are fine. Lots of priests already say it is fine being gay as long as you are not actively gay i.e. you have no sex ever. The catholic church could simply publically say that.

And in the UK we have moved enormously in overcoming homophobia, but in most countries where the catholic church is still strong, there is a lot of homophobia. You see this in the CofE where there is tremendous pressure in certain western countries to accept openly gay vicars, while in other countries there is an enormous pressure not to accept this.

OP posts:
boringnickname · 29/04/2012 22:41

The church refers to the pope as the Holy Father, right? Well, i loved my dad, but im not sure i ever did as i was told Grin

There is alot of bollocks being spouted on this thread.

I am wholy sick that it seems ok to everyone (my DP included) to have a sly bash at the catholic church, but to have it berated by catholics?

Fuck me!

I am a catholic because i was baptised, i don't know what a "good catholic is" but i was taught that a good catholic/christian - treats others how they wish to be treated, forgives, does not judge, accepts and loves. I try my very best to live my life in that way, but I, like the rest of you on this thread, I am not perfect. Far from it

Original poster
zombiegames · 29/04/2012 22:54

Why is criticising anything seen as catholic bashing?
And can I respectfully ask that if you don't want people to criticise stuff you say about catholicism, don't start or contribute to threads defending catholics or catholicism.

OP posts:
Original poster
zombiegames · 29/04/2012 22:54

Why is criticising anything seen as catholic bashing?
And can I respectfully ask that if you don't want people to criticise stuff you say about catholicism, don't start or contribute to threads defending catholics or catholicism.

OP posts:
Kayano · 29/04/2012 22:58

I just think cherry picking what you want from a religion and ignoring all the other issues and teachings is not following the faith.

It is just wearing the title.

For example going by some of the posts on here I could in effect say
'I don't believe in good concours that Jesus was the son of god.... But I don't eat shellfish because it's in the bible... I am therefore catholic because I was baptised and my mum said so'

Hmm

The amount of Catholics who use contraception is a bit :/ but you know if you cherry pick then that's your call

boringnickname · 29/04/2012 23:00

i dont usually contribute to threads on religion as i know my own faith, i am not au fait with theology so don't tend to contribute as i would be spouting shite i guess. But heres a thing, you started this thread on AIBU, if you wanted a reasoned debate on aspects of catholicism then there is a religeon part of this site. I suspect you were just wanting to be provocative. If you don't want people to disagree with you, might i suggest you don'st start threads criticising catholics and how they choose to practice, or not practice their faith.

boringnickname · 29/04/2012 23:02

What religeon are you then Kayano? What qualifies you to have all of this skepticism?

Original poster
zombiegames · 29/04/2012 23:03

Of course I knew some would disagree. But I don't accept the label of catholic bashing. And i did not know there were rules about posting in AIBU tbh or that there was a religion part of the site.

OP posts:
boringnickname · 29/04/2012 23:07

There is, its called Philosophy/religeon, i think - i am surprised you don't know about it, its frequently in Active convos - i dip in when i see something interesting, i don't post as i don't have enough knowledge to make a constructive contribution.

What i will not accept however is being told i am not a catholic just based on the fact that i don't fit into the dogma. I am judged by God, not the pope, nor my parish priest so i am fucked to fuckery if i am going to be judged by anyone else Hmm

Kayano · 29/04/2012 23:08

I was raised catholic and got a catechism every year for my birthday from the deacon of our church.

I got confirmed at 14 despite reservations because. I admit... I was totally bribed by my mother.

I was adopted through a catholic adoption agency.

I had Christmas dinner every year with my gran and the deacon.

I do know about Catholicism...

I just don't see how people can just ignore all the nasty issues because their families were traditionally of that faith.

It is. It the faith I have a problem with, it's the annoying people who say 'I am catholic BUT'

Sort of like 'no offence BUT'
'I'm not homophobic BUT...'

Iyswim?

Northey · 29/04/2012 23:08

Weren't you on the catholic schools/homophobia thread, where I mentioned the Religion/Spirituality board at least twice?

Heaven forfend i'd have to conclude you didn't read responses properly.

boringnickname · 29/04/2012 23:08

Also, there are no "rules" about AIBU, but people tend to post here if

a) they are genuinely unsure of their stance on something, hence asking the question AIBU in the first instance

or b) looking for a bun fight

Which one of these categories do you fall into?