To think some Catholics don't understand their own faith

[zombiegames]

Okay I admit a thread about a couple of other threads.

I was brought up Catholic, but am not one now - but I do understand how the way you are brought up as a Catholic gets under your skin. But it does make me angry that other people here who say they are catholics, appear to have so little understanding of their own faith.

The pope is not just someone whose opinion you can dismiss if you are a catholic. He is christs representative on earth and he is infallible - that means he can't be wrong. This is an absolute key part of the one true faith. It is not a side belief that can be conveniently ignored.

So when the pope says for example that gay marriage or using condoms is wrong, that is a belief of the catholic faith and can't just be dismissed. If you say this is wrong, you are saying that the pope is not infallible and thus you are questioning an absolute key part of catholicism.

Why does this anger me? Because a lot of people who are not and have never been catholics don't really understand catholicism as can be seen on here when non catholic parents who send dcs to catholic schools froth on here about what their dcs are being taught. Posters who post about being catholic and non homophobic, are misrepresenting catholicism to those who don't understand it. If the pope says something, then that is part of the catholic faith and is what catholics should believe.

And sorry I probably ABU as I know this is a bit of a rant, even though it is true.

No one said catholism is different, In fact the Holy Roman Catholic Church is the the christian church. The rest are really just denominations created by men who wanted to disagree with the church in the past. Whether that be anglican lutheran baptist etc. etc. which if you think about it why do people stay in a church they do not agree with when other denominations are available?

I couldn't have stayed a catholic. I just think there is far too much I disagree with.

Zombie, Is there anything that you agree with?

Yes of course and I actually like the much more traditional services, incense and all that. But I don't like the role of the pope, the role of women, the churchs views around sex and sexuality. Just far too big stumbling blocks for me.

And in some ways I actually agree with the stance that religious beliefs and practices shouldn't change according to fashion. I like the idea of immutable beliefs that don't change - even if I don't actually like some of the beliefs of the catholic church.

I agree with the church at a much more base level.

I agree with them providing breakfast to anyone who turns up.
This (to me) is the real work of the church.
The hierarchy (to me) is politics which needs challenging.

You see although I like the good works of the catholic church, I don't see this as much different to certain other denominations which also do this. I mean it is good, but I don't see it as something particular to catholicism.

So the methodists, although i don't have personal knowledge of their church services etc, seem to do loads in terms of helping people in poverty, etc.

Nor do I. My catholicism is a reflection of my my humanity.

Not a separate entity.

What do you mean Dione?

and you need an actual bishop to do confirmation on you

Not true - my mum was confirmed by the parish priest - but it was about 10 mins after she had been baptised and she was 21

Northey I don't accept theat argument about being Enlgish and David Cameron. Not all English people voted for him, and not all English people call themselves conservative.Even if you said 'what if you were a conservative but did not like David Cameron could you still call yourself a Conservative?' Yes, of course you could, providing you still felt that you adhered to/agreed with basic Concervative values. But why would you say 'I am a dyed in the wool tory but actually reject capitalism and a small state, even though they are the basic tenets of Conservatism, as I prefer socialism and a big state - I think it's fairer/nicer/more sensible/more realistic in today's society.' Which is what exactly what Catholics who use contraception and are completely accepting of homosexuality and gay marriage do.

The difference between David Cameron coming up with a policy that not all Tory voters are happy with, and the Pope preaching something that not all Catholics are happy with, is that the Pope did not just decide upon coming to office that birth control, homosexuality and gay marriage were wrong. they are, and have always been the 'rules' according to the RC church. If you don't live by them then you cannot truly call yourself a Catholic. You may have been born into Roman Catholicism, but you certainly do not live as a Roman Catholic.

And it is not the same as being Jewish and not keeping Kosher either. Jews are a race, and a culture, not just a religion.

Hilly it is not up to you to decide whether we our real Catholics or not.

Well that's ok, hilly, you needn't accept it. It's intended to give a feel for our position, rather than be a perfect parallel. You might, as a looser alternative, compare it with being British but an anti-monarchist, maybe. So you really dislike having the Queen as head of state and hope that one day there will be a republic, but in the meantime you get on with living your life and paying your taxes.

On your final point, quite a few Catholics here have described a cultural Catholicism (quoting Dara O'Briain again "I don't believe in God, but I'm still Catholic, obviously.").

Maybe the Catholics on here should blow the Catholic Women's League's mind and apply to form a virtual branch ;)

Ok, look. I'm obvipusly really really stupid, and people will tell me that this has been explained hundreds of times alrqdy, but humour me..

Imagine a village with two primary schools. One RC. One non faith.

Jim lives next to the Catholic school, but isn't a Catholic. The other school is 2 miles away. Mary lives a mile away but is a Catholic.

Jim doesn't get a place at the Catholic school, but Mary does. It is entirely possible that Jim doesn't get a place at the other school because he lives too far away.

And the ONLY reason Mary gets a place at the RC school is because the Church partially funds it. Nothing do with Catholic education. because Catholics don't believe anything different to any other Christian, so they don't need any specific Catholic education. It's purely a matter of funding. Is that right?

Well. It's right that you think there is no difference in belief between Catholicism and other Christian religions. And in a way you are right, and in a way you are wrong.

Perhaps think of it like this. Is there any difference between me and Barack Obama? In one way, no - we are both human. In another way, yes - he has more melanoma in his skin and male genitalia. In another way, yes - we have been brought up in different countries, over different time periods, with slightly different frames of reference and slightly different values.

Whether or not the differences matter depends on the context.

But I do think there are differences- I could list them. It's everyone else on the thread that's been saying that there a no differences.

Perhaps they were saying that in relation to a different context.

Nope. On this thread. Have you read it?

Yes. But this thread has ranged over several questions, all of which therefore may be said to set up different contexts.

People have specifically said that here is nothing different in Catholic education.

What like? You mean that catholic state schools follow the national curriculum? That's true (and indeed the law), but there is also a cultural community element on top, so, for example, they may tackle climate change through the language of stewardship of the earth. They may have termly masses. They may bring in flowers for a statue of Mary in May. You might not think that sort of cultural community is worth it. The Catholic church sees value in continuinh yo support it. The government sees more value in allowing it to continue than in stopping it.

Our Church comes into school for a weekly Mass and people from the Church are involved in school activities. The Church and the school are closely linked. Being a Catholic involves far more than just going to Church on Sundays.

Educating Catholic children together means that they can all receive the correct instruction in the Sacraments etc. and also be helped to understand the Christian faith and how to incorporate it into daily life and live out their faith authentically as they get older.