To think some Catholics don't understand their own faith

[zombiegames]

Okay I admit a thread about a couple of other threads.

I was brought up Catholic, but am not one now - but I do understand how the way you are brought up as a Catholic gets under your skin. But it does make me angry that other people here who say they are catholics, appear to have so little understanding of their own faith.

The pope is not just someone whose opinion you can dismiss if you are a catholic. He is christs representative on earth and he is infallible - that means he can't be wrong. This is an absolute key part of the one true faith. It is not a side belief that can be conveniently ignored.

So when the pope says for example that gay marriage or using condoms is wrong, that is a belief of the catholic faith and can't just be dismissed. If you say this is wrong, you are saying that the pope is not infallible and thus you are questioning an absolute key part of catholicism.

Why does this anger me? Because a lot of people who are not and have never been catholics don't really understand catholicism as can be seen on here when non catholic parents who send dcs to catholic schools froth on here about what their dcs are being taught. Posters who post about being catholic and non homophobic, are misrepresenting catholicism to those who don't understand it. If the pope says something, then that is part of the catholic faith and is what catholics should believe.

And sorry I probably ABU as I know this is a bit of a rant, even though it is true.

I on the other hand was like 'get in there!'

So are mine. Liberal Catholics. So they happily talked to me about contraception and sex before marriage.

Your parents are obviously not liberal Catholics. Which is their choice, but please don't imagine that your experience is common.

I went to Catholic school, have many, many Catholic friends and only know one family who I would not describe as liberal Catholics i.e. they follow every rule and regulation to the letter.

I have found that those that do often lose family and friends which is sad.

You are going off your experiences and I am going off mine

And they are obviously different. I guess I just don't see the point of clinging to the catholic faith when there are like thousands of other Christian churches which are much closer to your views and ideals.

My experiences too were different from yours Kanayo.

I think therein lies the crux of the matter. My parents and schools taught me that I am important. My views are important. They taught me the history of the church (good and bad) and of church dissent. I was taught to stand up for what I believe in. I was also taught that the catholic church was my church.

So I do consider it my church, my spiritual home. I therefore don't leave it. I challenge it. If my challenges become too much for the church, they can excommunicate me.

Well a quick google of excommunication of the catholic church tells me they have excommunicated a group called planned parenthood and a group called 'Catholics for choice' for fighting for a woman's right over contraception and reproductive health.

ishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln, Nebraska, issued an interdict in March 1996 forbidding Catholics within his diocese from membership in 12 organizations including CFC. Bruskewitz stated that membership in any of these 12 groups "is always perilous to the Catholic Faith and most often is totally incompatible with the Catholic Faith." Members of the diocese were given one month from the date of the interdict to remove themselves from participation in the named organizations or face automatic excommunication.

Granted its Wikipedia lol

Call to Action (CTA) is an organization that advocates for a variety of liberal causes to change the Catholic Church. Call to Action's goals include women's ordination, an end to mandatory priestly celibacy, a change in the church's teaching on a variety of sexual matters, and a change to the way the church is governed. Vatican officials have identified at least some of CTA's views "in contrast" with Catholic faith; these controversial positions of CTA have even resulted in the general excommunication of all its members in one particular diocese in the United States.

That was confirmed by the Vatican

So to be an catholic who actively challenges the church as opposed to silently disagreeing in the hypocrite background is to be an excommunicated catholic it would seem

So to be an catholic who actively challenges the church as opposed to silently disagreeing in the hypocrite background is to be an excommunicated catholic it would seem in ONE diocese

Confirmed by the Vatican though! Surely they have the final say On matters of how 'liberal' you can be.

Catholics can be involved in planned parenthood - it's called Natural Family Planning and is highly effective if practised properly.

I see my relationship with the Catholic church a bit like my marriage. There's bits that you love about your other half, bits you like, bits you don't like, bits that irritate you and bits you just ignore for the sake of an easy life. It's an ongoing, changeable relationship that develops over time. Just because I don't like that fact that dh leaves the loo seat up doesn't mean that I'd leave him. Our relationship is worth overlooking some things and just accepting the differences and working with what we have.

People criticise the Catholic church for being too dogmatic then criticise Catholics when we're not dogmatic enough

Good analogy hiddenhome.

I would love to know this perfect religion we should all be converting to Kayano.

Planned Parenthood are a sex education organisation hidden

hope this link works

Are they?

Are they pro-abortion?

dh (non Catholic) says that the reason why the Catholic church doesn't believe in contraception is because the Vatican wants to fill the world up with little Catholics This could either lead to world domination or more funds going into the Church. The reason why Catholic priests were stopped from marrying is because priests were keeping church lands for themselves (11th Century I think), so the church stopped them marrying to prevent this. A lot of stuff boils down to money.

Jesus objected to a lot of man made rules and told his followers to remember the Commandments and "To love others are we love ourselves".

I will await my letter from the bishop. In the meantime I will continue to practice and voice my dissent. I know that excommunication is not the end. Edicts have been reversed.

I am not silent in my opposition to papal pronouncements. Nor are many priests, nuns and laity. Challenging current teaching can lead to change. In the end, as my Catholic education taught me, I will answer to god, not the pope. My family history and religious education have taught me that injustice and inequality will continue unless challenged, that challenging can have a personal cost and that it is up to me to decide if it's worth it.

Therefore I stay and I challenge. I know my arguments, I know hhe risk bit I still think it's worth it. That's why I am a catholic.

More importantly, I see the benefits of the Catholic church. Perhaps it is on this issue that we differ Kayano and Zombie.

Dione, well done. your attitude is not cherrypicking. Challenging the church is (I think) futile in the sense that I don't think you will change much, but maybe i am wrong and defeatist, and I admire you for trying. If you have a sincere belief in the sacraments and don't feel that you can have a spiritual home in another church, then that is surely the right thing to do.

Drifting along, saying "those bits don't apply to me, I bet half the women in this church have a coil too" is quite a different thing from what you are talking about.

Nomorecakeoclock - do I have a religion? - this is a bit of a problem for me at the moment as I was brought up Catholic but can no longer be. I would like to bring my children up in a Christian way as I believe that this is one of the most powerful and beautiful ways in which the apparent negative, defeatist, neoliberal market driven hegemony can be challenged. I believe that the idea that humans are individuals beloved of God and possessed of a soul is a magnificent idea which entrusts each person with the strength and the responsibility to do the right thing by themselves and by each other and by this planet. I do not think that the catholic faith is an environment in which people are encouraged to behave as adults, as agents of change, or to trust themselves as much as one must to be a light in the world. I know not everyone has had the same experiences as me but again, I repeat, I am not talking about personalities but doctrine. I am not sure if I am a Christian because I am not sure how much of the miraculous stuff I can bring myself to believe. This is a disaster as I would love to be a part of a church and my children too. Does that answer your question?

Aargh lost a huge reply. Not typing it all again but basically there is a quiet revolution going on in the church.

20 years ago it would not be acceptable to be a Catholic and cherry pick. Now it is. The revolution will be slow, it's a huge organization which won't change overnight but change is coming.

The UK is streets ahead of many parts of the world in terms of equality, gay marriage etc, never mind ahead of the church.

However in individual churches change has happened. New, forward thinking priests are changing individual churches. Eventually this will move up the ranks and there will come a huge change.

I don't know why you can't be a catholic any more and that is personal to you. I hope you find your own way.

Dione - I have said many times that I know catholic church members, priests, etc do great things to help others and have seen it in my own family. But I don't agree that the catholic church as an institution is a force for good. But I now we are not going to agree on that.

codandchops The central part of the faith is that Jesus died for our suns and rose again on the third day. All the rest is peripheral as far as I am concerned so yes change can and should happen as long as the central core remains the same.

You are kidding right....have you actually read that anywhere in the bible?

The bit about Jesus dying for mankind's sins and rising again is central to Christianity , not just to Catholicism. What makes Catholicism different?

Do you guys actually challenge things and campaign for change in the hitch or just sit back and say

'I'll ignore that bit...'
?

In the church

Not hitch

I challenge.

I am not alone.