To think DH is being unrealistic?

[WeWereOnABreak]

Expecting me to jump straight into a highly paid, full time job after being a stay at home mum for the past 8 years?

I've namechanged BTW as DH knows my username on here.

I have been a stay at home mum for 8 years as I said. DH has a well paid job and we don't need me to work, and in any case DH's long hours and having to work away overnight mean that it would be impossible for me to do anything that fits in with his hours, and if I paid for childcare then it just wouldn't be worth it for us financially as obviously I have been out of the workplace for many years so wouldn't be able to have a well paid job and the extra would all get eaten up in childcare.

Anyway, our youngest is due to go to school next year, in September. He will have turned 4 about 4 weeks beforehand. DH is already making comments towards me about how it would be great if I could get a job paying 30 or 40k per year when DS starts school. I keep saying to him that firstly, no way will I be able to command a salary of 30 or 40k on returning to work after a 9 year (by that time) career break. Secondly, I think it's unrealistic of him to expect that I will just go back full time. I would love to go back to work part time but I think full time will just be too much given that DS will only be little and I'd like to be able to take him to school and pick him up at least part of the time and to spend time with him. Also my DH does nothing at all in the house. No laundry, no housework, no help with bathtimes and bedtimes, no cooking nothing. He also creates mess everywhere and won't even put his plate in the dishwasher. If I went to work I am certain very little would change with this and I would have the additional stress of a full time job in addition to doing absolutely everything around the house.

What I would really love to do, is to do a part time beauty therapy course once DS starts school. Then once qualified I'd like to work 2 or maybe 3 days a week, once of which would be a Saturday and DH could have the children or my sister would have them if DH was working. Then I would still be able to pick DS up from school the majority of time in the week and I'd be doing a job I loved. DH poo-poos the idea though and says I won't make enough money (although I do know some that earn well, although not mega bucks from beauty therapy). But I don't really care about earning a high salary, job satisfaction is more important to me. When I left school I was forced by my parents into doing business administration and so did office jobs, which I hated, until I had the DCs, and I really want to try and have a career that I really enjoy or else I will hate going to work. DH keeps banging on about doing an accountancy course and the whole thought of that fills me with horror, it wouldn't be my cup of tea at all.

Am I being unreasonable to think his expectations are unrealistic? As I said before, he has a very well paid job, we don't need the money of me working. If we did I would be working now in any job I could get. But as we don't need the money it seems silly to just shoehorn me into anything and expect I'm going to earn 30 or 40k. Also the thought of doing something I hate again, like I hated office work, makes me panicky.

So are you saying chrysanthemums that I am being unreasonable by wanting to pursue something I'd find enjoyable? I'm not sure I understand your point. What are you proposing I do instead? Bow down and do whatever DH tells me I'm to do so I'm not unreasonable? Ask him to pick a career and I'll obey and do it? Isn't it the norm that everyone chooses the career path that they want to follow? Or is there some custom that I've not heard of where husbands choose it for wives?

DH enjoys his career so why are you saying I'm being unreasonable by wanting to enjoy mine?

Er, Happymummyofone, her dh had the opportunity a couple of years ago to change to more family friendly house and turned it down. Against the wishes of the op.

So yes, he seems to be able to make whatever decisions he wants about his job without taking op's opinion into account.

NAND of course, house is hours.

I don't think your DH is being so much unreasonable as madly unrealistic. Especially in the current climate.

Retraining would be a really good idea, though I'm a bit about beauty therapy as, again, in the current economic climate the retraining might end up being a waste of time and money. What about shining up your administrative credentials with a professional qualification - accountancy? IT? Or even a PGCE if you've got a good degree? Think about skills shortages and (relatively) recession-proof jobs, but in things you would like to do.

But even still, you'd be lucky to find a FT job on £20 let alone £30-40 coming back into the workplace after 8 years. My super administrator ran a department before her having her children, was a SAHM for several years, and is now working part time on a pitiful salary well below where she was previously.

You can work up from there, but it will take quite a few years.

There are too many variables here aren't there? I took 5 years out, and was earning that kind of salary two years after returning to full time work. So it's not impossible. But I didn't have to retrain, and I am in a profession that is not unfriendly to the odd career break.

What kind of scientist?

I'm saying you're being unreasonable because you are only willing to be a beauty therapist which you may or may not be any good at or enjoy. While being unwilling to do the role (office work) that you have experience in. That's your decision but being completely unwilling to discuss it - which is how you come across in your posts - is unreasonable.

At no point did I say your H had the right to pick your job for you. You really need to stop being so touchy if you're going to post on here.

OP Happymummyofone has a habit of deliberately posting inflammatory comments on threads.
You should see some of her comments on the threads towards people on benefits.
However when questioned on whether she claims Child Benefit she stays strangely silent.
You get the picture.

Not touchy at all Chrysanthemums, just struggling to comprehend your viewpoint.

Why would I want to do an office job when I've done it before and detested it? What is the point in discussing it? Ah yes, so I can then give in and do what DH says?

and Chrysanthemums, would you be willing to discuss returning to a field of work that you hated and that made you miserable? I bet you wouldn't

Carernotasaint, Happymumofone has come across terribly, she doesn't sound like a very pleasant human being at all.

Chrysanthemum5, if her DH is actually concerned about the money he should tell her so, not just demand that she goes back to work and earns £30-40K without discussing how they would deal with housework and childcare (I presume he's just assuming he could sail on as he is now, with her taking full responsibility for the children and household and earning money as well). She didn't like office work, he likes his job. Assuming that she's right that money isn't a problem, I think she's perfectly entitled to explore things she might like better. Why is that unreasonable?

He wont even pick up a towel off the floor or put his plate in the dishwasher.
This is not just lazy. Its disrespectful as well. he treats you like the frickin maid.
My dh doesnt pick towels up off the floor because (guess what happymumofone) he doesnt leave them there in the first place!
Incidentally if a man with ATBI (acquired traumatic brain injury) who also uses a wheelchair can manage this im damn sure the OPs DH can get his fingers out of his arse and manage it too.

We're not going to agree but yes I would (and have) take a job I hated if it was the best option for my family. For what it's worth I think your H shouldn't have made decisions about his career without your input and I think the same about your options.

well good on you for being a martyr chrysanthemum! Have a pat on the back and a medal.

I fail to see how me taking a job that makes me miserable and means the kids don't get to see much of me, which might be totally rubbish pay, when we don't even need the money, can be the best option for my family but hey ho.

YANBU and I think being a mobile beauty person sounds great! It is well documented that in times of recession people spend on small luxuries like nails and hair rather than new cars etc.

You could scope out big businesses and offer your services? I don't know where you are, but where I work (large call centre) there is a roaring trade for the perfume and make up traders that come in monthly, not to mention the chiropodist and beauty lady that come in - she did my eyebrows for me for £3, took about 5 minutes and she was fully booked all day!

I think you owe it to yourself to properly sit down with your husband and explain that it is not possible for you to get a job in the £30-£40k bracket he envisages, and you are not prepared to do something he wants you to do which will make you unhappy.

Arm yourself with lots of brochures (or just info) about the courses you do want to do, and say this is what you see for yourself. Point out that what you earn should just about cover the cost of a cleaner, because to be frank, you are only going to get resentful as he probably won't change his slovenly habits now.

The point that some are making that OP should take any job that comes along is ridiculous - if they were in a position where they were struggling then yes, this would be sensible from a monetary point of view. But why should the OP do this if it will only make her life hard and miserable? Surely if you have a choice, you have the right to exercise that choice and take something that will make you happy?

WWOAB - I've read the thread, and I understand your frustration. But what comes across clearly is your anger. Of course your career decisions are yours and not your DH's. But I'm not seeing evidence of you having really thought this through.

If I understand you correctly, you say you want to do a part-time beauty therapy course. Have you researched these, checked the costs, confirmed the timings work, thought about when you need to make applications and whether you can afford it?

After that you hope to obtain a job in a local salon as an employed beauty therapist? I'm not clear about this because you have made references to doing bits at home - presumably therefore setting up your own business.

I think you will have a lot more success with your DH if you approach him rationally with thought through plans, rather than emotionally, as you are doing on this thread. I agree that he is not being rational either, btw, but in order for this not to turn into the biggest row ever, ONE of you has to approach the matter in a fully researched way, and be super-reasonable.

You should also maybe research what you would earn in an office environment, so that you can educate your DH. If the discussion goes like this 'Look DH. If I am very lucky and get this office job (brandish a couple of adverts), I will only be able to earn £15k. I will loathe it, the costs of travel and additional childcare will eat into any earnings and it will inconvenience you. I have a better plan ...'

OP there is no need to be so touchy!

Chrysthanthemums makes a good point, no need to be rude with her.

Your DH seems to have a "I'll do what I want" attitude, that you are now seeming to be showing this too with "I won't work in an office".

Your argument that it's somehow a choice between following your dream and being subservient is simplistic and self-absorbed.

Loads of us lucky enough to have a degree of choice about our type of work do non-ideal jobs - or even jobs we hate - for financial reasons. You're lucky to have choice, even if your DH isn't helping. But finances and practicality will always be part of the equation, even for those with high-earning partners.

What would you do, for example, if your Dh refused to support your studies? Wouldn't drop off / collect DC or take time off, or pay for the course or childcare? What if you broke up?

Well, I'm an accounting grad and can tell you he is in bloody la la land if he thinks you are going to command that sort of salary straight away. Utterly dreaming. It takes years to become a qualified accountant, and will generally involve a period of putting in seriously long hours doing dull audit work to get there. And really, you would need to be qualified/chartered to earn 40k. In Scotland that takes at least 3 years as a graduate, 5 years without. And that's if you can get a traineeship, which are super competitive.

None of this is meant as a put down to you, just to give you an idea of what you would be facing even trying to go down that route. Professional training of any sort with young children is really tough. I'm doing it myself (not accounting but similar) and I can only manage to put in the required hours because my DH works part time and is incredibly supportive.

My DH is currently doing a dead-end job which he only does because it's easy and flexible, and I've made it perfectly clear that when I am earning enough to support us both I will be more than happy to support him to do whatever he wants to do to get him a job he finds enjoyable and satisfying. Whatever that job is. It's not my job to dictate. I've made suggestions of things I believe he would be good at or enjoy, but it's just that. I think he would be gutted if I told him to go and become an accountant and demanded he earn that sort of salary.

Basically, your DH is being utterly unreasonable. Training for that sort of career isn't something you can or should ever do because somebody else wants you to.

Am not saying that you shouldn't do beauty therapy btw, just that you're not in a powerful position, whatever you think about DH, he's the one whose support you'll need.

Dozer the OP has already said several times that their money is shared, it would not be a case of her husband paying for the course or paying for childcare. Just one partner earning does not mean that the earning partner is 'paying' for everything.

I don't think she is self-absorbed either. It isn't self absorbed to do a job you enjoy and that makes you want to get out of bed in the morning. I can't blame her for not wanting to work in an office, I wouldn't want to either and woe betide my DH if he tried to force me to work in one! It's not a crime to choose your career path.

I do disagree too Dozer that OP will need the support of her husband. I know friends that are single mums that have done beauty therapy courses, hairdressing courses, even a degree.

An unsupportive or obstructive husband does not mean that it is impossible for someone to do a course or a job they want to do.

See what you're saying hexagonal, but if she wishes to stay with him it would be much harder for her to do the course if he doesn't support her (in every sense).