Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To consider a 3rd DC if we only want a girl

142 replies

Moti · 22/04/2012 21:23

This has been playing on my mind. At the moment we have 2 x DSs and I am happy with that, my DH has always wanted a DD as he is from a family of boys. DH recently said that he wanted to keep trying for a daughter and would be happy to have another couple of sons in the process. I have managed to delay any more 'trying' as I have a new job and we have now agreed that we should wait until youngest DS is at school. But in all honesty I don't want to keep on having children just to get a girl. I love my sons to bits but don't want another son as things are good as they are, I would like a daughter to please my DH. Right from the beginning of our relationship he talked about his wish for a daughter but I have never been concerned about the gender of our children. Anyone been in the same boat?

OP posts:
HillyWallaby · 23/04/2012 19:51

If you don't want another son then please for God's sake do not be tempted to have another child just for a girl or just to appease your DH. It's a ridiculous way to behave. Where will it end?

If you cannot konw that you will love a child completely and unconditionally irrespective of its gender then you really should not be having that child at all.

TheRhubarb · 24/04/2012 09:56

gafhyb, yes and I did say all through my posts that I was speaking only from my own experience which, not being a psychologist or specialist in child behaviour, I can only do. Each of us can only speak from his/her own experiences which always amuses me when people speak with such 'authority'. Surely you can only go off what you have seen and experienced throughout your lives?

Fwiw, I don't buy into the whole gender notion and have avoided gender toys or treating children any differently because of their gender. You'll just have to take my word for that.

What is the difference between assuming that perhaps parents treat different genders differently or have different expectations from them and assuming that different genders are just different? Each one is utterly without scientific evidence yet each one is held up as proof for a different argument.

I think both are probably true. There are some parents who DO treat their kids differently and let boys get away with a lot more than girls, but there are also boy who ARE different. How can they not be when they have different hormonal balances in their bodies? What about the argument that testosterone is responsible for some of the natural assertiveness that men seem to possess? Or the argument that progesterone is responsible for some of the nuturing qualities of women?

Yes it does sound terribly sexist and I can understand people wanting to stamp down on any perceived difference, but I don't see their evidence as outweighing the other evidence.

I think on this thread that there are a lot of people who want to believe that boys and girls are exactly the same. Well hasn't this experiment already been done? There was a scientist who firmly believed in nurture over nature so when one of a twin had a horrible accident during a routine circumcision, he chose that baby as his 'proof' that a child could successful swap genders and be brought up as a different gender. That little boy was turned into a girl (this was the late 60s I think so they didn't see that they had any other choice). The baby knew no different and the scientist (sorry I forget his name) held her up as an example of how right he was. That gender differences are chosen by parents and society. However he wasn't right at all. He was wrong and the child, now grown-up was the subject of a documentary. He had turned himself back into a man and was saying how he knew all through his life that something was wrong, that he was occupying the wrong body. Several studies since on other babies who have been born with both sexual organs and the medics have had to choose a sex for them, have shown that some of those children went on to have sex changes because they just 'knew' that they were the wrong gender.

This debate will rage on and on but personally I do not think that we as a society have as much influence over gender difference as we like to think that we do.

TheRhubarb · 24/04/2012 09:59

Found it, The Boy Who Was Turned Into a Girl

entropygirl · 24/04/2012 10:01

Hormonal arguments dont really make sense when applied to children as the levels are far lower. That women and men may be different due to hormonal control is far more reasonable an assertion than that young children are.

Secondly of course there is more evidence than simply what one has seen in ones own life...that is what science is all about. I don't have to repeat every scientific experiment ever done, because others already have.

TheRhubarb · 24/04/2012 10:05

But you should not dismiss the arguments that differ, because each argument raises good points. This thread appeared to be just full of people stating clearly that gender in children is equal and anyone who questioned that would be met with a sigh or a biscuit. If people are not going to engage in an argument or listen to any point of view other than their own, then what is the point exactly?

There are many many papers and scientific studies that show that gender identity in children is different and there are many papers that try to show the opposite. As far as I am aware, no-one has yet come up with a conclusive answer.

entropygirl · 24/04/2012 11:35

I didn't. In fact my post says that I would expect girls to find more in common with each other than with boys even if raised in a total vacuum. I think the evidence suggests that the majority of difference is societally imposed not that ALL of the difference is.

Seems pretty accepting of both view points to me.

TheRhubarb · 24/04/2012 11:41

Hmm well it DOES sway heavily to one side, whereas I think it's more of an even keel. Even in those societies with no gender bias, there is still a difference.

But yes, society does play a role, even if it's only encouraging those traits. However I guess we've veered off from the original OP ever so slightly! Shame, but I don't think she's coming back. I just hope she's read all of these fantastic posts and doesn't inflict her dh's immature attitude on yet another child or allow her second son to suffer as a result.

GinPalace · 24/04/2012 11:45

The day my dad told me I was the boy her never got is burnt on my brain!

He meant it as a compliment as we were close and I liked being involved in his activities like fixing car etc.

But it made me feel awful as I a) wasn't the boy he really wanted (hadn't known that till then) and b) I was obviously a rubbish girl as I was more like a boy.

So I felt like a failure from whatever direction you came at it from. :(

I really struggled to find my place after that, as I didn't know whether I should try to be boyish to make my Dad happy or be more girly as I was a girl. Took me ages to find how to be me after that. Parents shouldn't have expectations as you just don't know what you are going to get and need to be happy with whatever.

OP's DH might get a girl like me and then he'd be all disappointed!!! Grin

littlemslazybones · 24/04/2012 11:52

entropygirl Hormonal arguments dont really make sense when applied to children as the levels are far lower. That women and men may be different due to hormonal control is far more reasonable an assertion than that young children are.

I think I remember reading in Steve Biddulph book on raising boys that at four boys experience a surge in testosterone that, relative to their size, knocks the socks off the surge experienced at puberty.

littlemslazybones · 24/04/2012 11:56

(FWIW, I didn't like that book and I think Steve Biddulph came across as an ass).

TheBigJessie · 24/04/2012 12:08

I KNEW that poor, poor man was going to be brought up.

I have seen it convincingly argued from that man's tragic life and other data points that people have a neurological instinct for bodily integrity, i.e. that their genitalia are wrong. I have seen it used to argue that gender dysphoria is caused by upbringing and/or some level of gender role is innate. All based on the different confounding factors in that case, such as the parents who knew he was born male, which could have affected their parenting, and they never treated him the way they would have treated a biological girl. Or the doctor's behaviour. I believe that the man alleged that the doctor arranged gender role therapy, which among other things, involved he and his brother having to simulate doggy-style sex (fully clothed)!

I personally concluded that particular techniques of circumcision (with a laser, was it?) were exceedingly dangerous!

WhereYouLeftIt · 24/04/2012 12:39

"He even said to youngest DS the other day 'I love you even though I thought you would be a girl!'. "

Shock Shock Shock

Dear God I hope this is a wind-up.

TheRhubarb · 24/04/2012 13:01

TheBigJessie - the Horizon programme was very very good. They didn't mention they gender role therapy that you talk of but they did include plenty of clips of the interview that the man gave (David) and what he says about how he was brought up and how he felt are, I think, the only things you can take as facts from what happened. He is not alone however, many other children have their sex dictated for them when they are born with both genitalia and the studies on how this affects them are ongoing.

Janni · 24/04/2012 13:22

I'm wondering if he's desperate for a girl because he imagines she will adore him? Putting you through more pregnancies in order to please his mum with a granddaughter makes him sound a bit needy of affection and approval.

gafhyb · 24/04/2012 16:36

Rhubarb

I sounded more bolshy than intended yesterday, so sorry about that.

I do think gender plays a part, just much less of a part than many assume.

gafhyb · 24/04/2012 16:39

I don't think we did get off the subject of the OP. The DH has made assumptions about what a girl will be like, or what role she will fulfill in family life, based on her gender. I just wanted to say that this is bogus and potentially damaging to her, and the boys who will come to realise they weren't what dad really wanted.

TheRhubarb · 24/04/2012 17:01

Smile You weren't bolshy and I understand your point.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page