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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to really hate the term "birth rape"

396 replies

laumiere · 21/04/2012 12:15

It's from this story where a woman is allegedly put under a GA under her will and given an emergency C section. All very unpleasant (although it does throw up the question as to how much we really expect to control a process which at a basic level is still capable of killing us and our babies) but commentators are starting to term it 'birth rape'. As a rape survivor and someone who has supported rape victims as part of my job I am so sick of this term being overused and devalued! (This goes double for the moronic "draping" on FaceBook).

OP posts:
seanbonbon · 21/04/2012 15:02

God, she sounds painful - "That's medical intervention no. 1" ?? Imagine being one of the team trying to help this woman and hearing that comment? How very rude.
And yes, I've given birth 3 times (not always to plan)- I know manners aren't top of your list but it costs nothing to be polite.

Pseudonym99 · 21/04/2012 15:02

Maybe they put a cathether in. In which case it would be sexual assault. And anyone watching could be charged with voyeurism?

BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte · 21/04/2012 15:04

Yes, exactly.

EdlessAllenPoe · 21/04/2012 15:05

dless can you not home-birth, in the USA.

in some states it is next-to illegal. MLus exist in some state, not others.

LeQueen · 21/04/2012 15:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EdlessAllenPoe · 21/04/2012 15:09

I cannot believe soooooo many people on here have missed that the babys heart rate was showing "decels" ( the woman herself mentions it only once but did not say that it returned to normal either) .. when the rate slows the baby is in distress !!!!!!!!!!

tazzle she was on an external monitor and those can drop out -

i'd be interested in VLBs comment on that, but in this country i know of people who have had 'decels' completely ignored as normal by HCPs around them...

LeQueen · 21/04/2012 15:10

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tazzle · 21/04/2012 15:11

yes edlessAllenpoe all we have is her blog ..... but what she writes in it may not be an accurate account ( not necesaary deliberate falsifications but "errors" or omissions) just like many of us post trauma / aneasthesia.

As an illustration I was once punched in the stomach by a man (patient) apparently fully conscious when I tried to stop him getting out of bed and pulling out all his IV's / drains / catheter. He had no recollection of it next day and was absolutely mortified when another patient told him what he had done.

I am not saying there were, and never are, mismanagments or errors in the hopital(s) ...... just that there is a possibility that every single "accusation" may not be accurate.

DerbysKangaskhan · 21/04/2012 15:11

It is illegal in that it is illegal for a HCP to deliver at home. Unless she wanted to go unassisted, hospital may have been her only choice. I know it seems nuts, but the States are very odd about midwives.

EdlessAllenPoe · 21/04/2012 15:17

this woman agreed to the scalp clip.

she then agreed to go to OR as a precaution.

she wasn't told about a c/s, or immediate concern -according to this account.

yet people are making out she was being unnecessarily difficult. rude. just how fucking compliant does someone have to be before you lot think they have a right to complain?

LeQueen · 21/04/2012 15:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeQueen · 21/04/2012 15:19

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EdlessAllenPoe · 21/04/2012 15:21

she doesn't say she wanted anything other than a hospital VB with waterbirth and minimal monitoring. that's far from revolutionary.

EdlessAllenPoe · 21/04/2012 15:21

what did she refuse leq?

tazzle · 21/04/2012 15:23

hhmmm I think you meant that she was on an external monitor and that the scalp monitor (internal) can fall out.

Some decels can be not enough to cause concern and small dips are indeed common enough to be "normal" ......... but the midwife must monitor to ensure that the rate returns to normal in between contractions. If it does then there is less concern.

With my own DDr her babys rate went from fine to decelerating to not detectable in a very short space of time and it was a race to get to theatre to ensure a live baby was delivered.

TwinkleTwinklyStars · 21/04/2012 15:24

The term 'birth rape' is horrid, I agree the word rape is used far too flippantly.

The woman in the story was horribly assaulted though, yes it may have been necessary to save the life of her baby, but it sounds like (from the way she tells it) as if the medical staff expected an argument/her being difficult so to make their job easier they just put her under and did the CS without discussing it.

I had an awful birth experience, I felt abused by the hospital staff, one MW in particular who forcibly gave me drugs that I did not want or need, even after I had made my position on the matter quite clear.
I was also held down and forced to have the G&A thing in my mouth, while she held my nose to 'encourage' me to breath in, 'For my own good.'
I was refused anything to eat or drink by the MW for over 4 hours, and then forced to drink a pint of water in one go. (and encourage, by her holding my head and tipping the cup, even when I was gagging)
I was talk to and treated like a child (i was 24), the MW repeatedly referred to me as 'the silly girl' and told me to stop acting like a spoilt brat.
When I asked to speak to someone in charge (after she gave me pethidine against my will) She told me to shut up and stop acting like a baby.
I was forced to have two canulars in my hands, and told that if I did not allow them to do it I would be held down and forced to have them. (they were never needed or used and there is no explanation as to why they wanted them in my notes)
I was also forced to have other unnecessary invasive things done to me.
There was also a lot of other things that I don't want to mention.

After the birth I was very upset and demanded to make a complaint, I was fobbed off and sent in circles for months before anyone listened to me, and then the MW said I had asked for those things and that i was so high that I didn't know what was going on.

In my notes she and another member of staff had written that I refused to let them do certain things, that I was extremely difficult, that I demanded drugs and had a 'hissy fit' when they told me I couldnt have anymore.
The notes made me sound like I was being completely unreasonable.

The thing that makes it all worse is that I had a quick complication free birth, at no point was there any problems or signs of them. I had hardly any pain and there is no explanation as to why I was forced to have all of the unnecessary things done to me.
I had a very simple natural birth plan, I wanted no drugs and no stress, I just wanted to do it simply.

I found out three years later that the MW was newly qualified and was very 'eager' to test all of the things that she had learned.

I have not stepped foot in a hospital since.
And I would never have another baby in a hospital.

LeQueen · 21/04/2012 15:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RevoltingPeasant · 21/04/2012 15:32

I am actually, genuinely shocked at many of the attitudes on here.

I lurk/ post on the childbirth and feminism boards quite a bit and in the last fews months have read stories by MNers there who experienced -

  • manual dilation against consent
  • forced VEs (a teen mum)
  • being manhandled onto their backs by midwives
  • being pushed into what in retrospect seem unnecessary procedures

Many of these women feel really distressed post-birth and some have PND. They are always treated very sympathetically by other MNers. wtf is going on on this thread???? Confused Esp the manual dilation woman, who iirc hadn't had other children afterwards as she couldn't face the idea.

Are people seriously suggesting that just by going into hospital, you lose all rights over your own care? That you should automatically do whatever a dr tells you, and that refusing or God forbid even questioning is 'pulling stunts' or 'sulking'?

I'm sorry but those phrases really make me sick.

DioneTheDiabolist · 21/04/2012 15:32

The woman who posted this has not yet received the documents relating to her operation. It is very possible that once she does they will reveal that the emergency CS she underwent saved her life and that of her child.

Her memory of the actual event is incomplete and while I understand that this has been very traumatic for her, I don't think that the accusations that she is making are justified without her having all the facts to hand.

5madthings · 21/04/2012 15:36

dionethediabolist IF you read all the comments you wil find that she has got all the documentation, it was origionally posted a year ago and she has updated it :) they still do NOT explain why she had a c section.

5madthings · 21/04/2012 15:36

they also lie and say her husband consented, which he did not.

RevoltingPeasant · 21/04/2012 15:40

tbh we can't know the facts about that woman in the story and I suppose it is possible she consented. I have had 3 GAs in the last twelve months and know that I am a bit hazy around some stuff that happened afterwards - and I remember one anaesthetist remarking to me that some patients didn't even remember the consultation with her.

What I am more bothered by is the attitude to women displayed by some posters.

tazzle · 21/04/2012 15:44

It is not my intention to make her out to be rude, nor to say no one ever has a right to complain and certainly not to make health professionals out to be gods /angels......

However when someone makes soooo public accusations that might not be an accurate representation of what factually happened then surely readers can question and have reservations about it. That is entirely different form saying she, or anyone esle, is lying about it.

Whilst I do defend the majority of the HCP ( of which I am one) because we do care very much about the job we do and the peole we work with under sometimes very busy and stressful conditions ... its not universal and some staff are c* / poorly trained / lost sense of care etc as well as just sometimes make mistakes .. we after all mere humans.

When I was a child I was not completely under anaesthetic when some teeth, which actually did not need to be taken out (what I needed was braces !!!), were extacted by a dentist who had an alcohol problem .. he should have had an anaesthetist present and did not !. He was struck off as he had mussed up many kids teeth Angry. I remembered the whole procedure and it was only believed when I could tell the investigators that a nurse came in part way and I knew what she had said. DM could not get me near a dentist again for years !!!

So no I am not bllindly defending medical profession and saying it never happens ......... just looking at the presented blog like eveyone here . just not assuming that every thing said is FACT.

As to the op origional question about it being rape..... hhmmmmm not sure , depends on defintion and on what definatley happened .

WhiteShores · 21/04/2012 16:01

I think even the term 'violation' would be more appropriate, as it conveys the feeling of bodily integrity being violated without referring inappropriately to a sexual element.

Rape refers to a very specific thing, and it isn't really helpful to anyone if the boundaries of its definition start getting blurred.

EdlessAllenPoe · 21/04/2012 16:02

Dione you don't think the lack of nots is in itself a cause for concern?

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