AIBU to really hate the term "birth rape"

[laumiere]

It's from this story where a woman is allegedly put under a GA under her will and given an emergency C section. All very unpleasant (although it does throw up the question as to how much we really expect to control a process which at a basic level is still capable of killing us and our babies) but commentators are starting to term it 'birth rape'. As a rape survivor and someone who has supported rape victims as part of my job I am so sick of this term being overused and devalued! (This goes double for the moronic "draping" on FaceBook).

You said that doctors do not get sued for doing CS. That is untrue.

as i already googled it - Physician convenience: Weekday, day shift: 66% of emergency cesareans took place between 8 am and 3 pm, and not a single one between 5 am and 6 am.(4) UnneCesareans are not performed on weekends or national holidays, in order not to interfere with leisure time.(5)

there was a post from a woman on here where it sounded like the OB just wanted to go home and gave her a C/s without any apparent reason.
this is why i find it believable.

So let's just pretend and say she did have it explained to her, albeit very briefly and then she said no? The baby's heartbeat had dropped significantly, they had minutes to save his life, and she was saying no.

What else could they possibly have done to save the baby? Genuine question.

I quoted a source dione, you counter quoted. your counter quote was 20 years old almost..

moomin detecting decels on a FHM is not the same as 'the babys heart decelerating'. if the first thing they'd done upon attaching the clip was go 'JESUS GOD! Get to surgery!' the whole thing might be more understandable.

outraged i believe what they'd have done had this been a JW refusing a transfusion on behalf of their child (the comparable thing that comes to mind) - they'd have had to sit on their hands and get a court order.

or possibly gone to her DH for consent.

presumably then, there'd have been some note that all this had gone on...

Endless, my reference to Meandor vs Stahler & Gheridian is as appropriate as the Wade vs Roe case on abortion. Wade vs Roe is 40 years old, but isn't out of date. It is precedent.

I looked at your link. It gives insight into Australian, Brazilian and Israeli practice. It does not provide additional evidence in the case of this woman. Her case is what it is. Her struggles are apparent for all to see. This does not mean her care givers raped her or were abusive in giving her a CS.

What do you think it means then

It's a horrible term and whilst no one wants to be operated on without their consent she doesn't seem to be able to see beyond her own needs. Maybe I'm biased but I was born due to an EMCS and am extremely lucky to be here. My DM cannot remember giving consent but can remember the medical staff running down the corridor pushing her bed into the theatre. I was transverse lie, they had tried to turn me several times without success and I was in distress. She had been in labour for almost 2 days. My DM's cs scar runs down not across and I have a corresponding scar on my side even now nearly 45 years later, such was their hurry to get me out. Both me and my DM are very, very thankful for the intervention of the medical staff. They didn't have time for friendly requests to sign consent forms, they had to act immediately.

Although it took my DM time to recover from surgery she was not traumatised. She says that her only thoughts afterwards were about 'what if' they hadn't acted so quickly. She went on to have my DB two years later without any problems. She had no thoughts of 'how dare they' etc. She was just glad we were both alive.

When I was in very early labour I was subject to being given a sweep and manual dilation. It absolutely fucking hurt and I hated it but I had no idea what was happening. However when DS was born he had the cord round his neck and was meconium aspirate and spent 3 days in SC. I might not have consented but I'm bloody glad she did it as if he'd spent longer in there the outcome could have been so much worse.

I hate the word rape being used for anything other than what it actually is.

When I see people put 'fraped', I actually want to punch them.

Under those circumstances I think it would be assault.

I was once, only once, involved in a medical procedure where the patient had not given informed consent.

Everyone in the team had to individually agree that the treatment was in the best interest, that if the patient had been able to he would have consented (he had a similar procedure earlier in the day, we were then called in from the on call rota) and none of us had a moral/legal objection.

The woman is in America - I wonder if she has paid her medical bill?

It's a case of damned if you do or damned if you don't. Why so much bloody suspicion around the medical body?
Sometimes when I read what people write on MN, I am shocked to see how many people do no trust a whole array of professionals from doctors to teachers via MW and HV. I am not saying that people are always right, communicate clearly and never fuck up, but still I think we should be grateful for the relatively free and relatively good quality of care we receive in this country.
What's more, I agree that using the word rape for anything other than rape is wrong.

Why do people keep saying things like 'in this country'?
In this country the NHS has to pay more money if they do a c section

This case was in America
There presumably either the patient or their insurance pays for a csec

Straight away it means you can be suspicious for different reasons

Maybe this might make people more sympathetic womantowomancbe.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/at-least-you-have-a-healthy-baby/

I don't like the term birth rape. I've never heard it before. I just read the link you posted. I didn't read that term being used there? Awful story though and that woman was violated appalling. Not raped though, but she was assaulted definitely.

I have to admit to feeling a bit confused by women who complain that they feel traumatised by giving birth; it is quite a traumatic thing. As for CS; It's major invasive surgery. How can you expect not to feel traumatised?

Birth wasn't traumatic for me! I didn't have CS though, but then this woman didn't want one either.

Not many women do want a CS

I just wonder how much peoples experiences differ, or whether it is often perception and expectations that make it more traumatic for an individual

Birth was traumatic for me! First- time prem vaginal birth with the world and his wife in the room. second- prem section ( that I didn't want).. I was having an abruption and it was utterly terrified, I had panic attacks for 2 years afterwards. Third - 17 week miscarriage, induced labour, emotional hideous and physically agony.

I've been prodded and poked but more people than I could name in an hour, I've had some super fucking shit experiences.

None of them like being raped. Not even close.

it is often perception and expectations that make it more traumatic for an individual Good point.

Don't the notes say that the DH consented? People are
Putting such emphasis on the notes not including reason why it was done, but are overlooking the fact it says her partner did consent to the surgery.

Maybe he did in the panic of the moment and now doesn't want to be in bother with his wife?

Just a suggestion?

I wondered that too Kayano.

The dh, knowing how anti his wife was to medical intervention, probably feared she'd divorce him if he told her that he had consented.

Beach - but it's not clear that the crash section was medically necessary. Doctors aren't Gods - sometimes they do things because they want to do them. They have a belief that X is a good thing even though actual evidence-based medicine shows it ain't. Or they have a belief that birth is risky and any sign of trouble = c-section, especially in America. Doctors like C-sections because the births doctors see are the difficult ones - a straightforward birth doesn't come onto their radar. And I'm afraid in America doctors like doing things they can charge for - if you get doctors talking privately and honestly they will admit this. Doctors are also subject to trends and fashion - tonsillectomy has been in and out of fashion, for instance. Medicine is complicated and two different doctors may well give you two different opinions.