to think ds's school should take a harder line over these issues?

[lecce]

Although we are reasonably happy with what seems to be going on in the classroom of ds1's school (he is in YR) there are a couple of issues that are really starting to grate - especially on dh, who does the school runs. He wants to raise them at a forthcoming parent forum so AWBU?

1. Smoking directly outside the school. Our local council recently introduced a voluntary ban on smoking outside schools (on the pavement) and in play areas. Posters were sent to all schools bt ours has not displayed any. There are always countless parents smoking right outside the door and it seems to us it is not setting a good example to the children. Dh is particularly depressed by the handful of women who turn up in the mornings smoking in their pyjamas. Dh is a typical ex-smoker I suppose but he is angry more with the school for not publicising the issue, than the parents themselves. Of course the head cannot stop the parents outright but displaying the posters would be a start.

1. At least once a week ds comes out with some rubbishy snack given because of someone's birthday. Today it was a bag of total crap - lollies, those candy stick things, rock hard sweets I would never give him. Monday it was a bag of Walkers. We really don't want him to have all this stuff - yes dh can (and does) take it off him but he could do without the 5 minutes of whinging that ensues and it does seem unfair to ds when others from his class are walking alongside him eating theirs. I read about schools on here policing lunch boxes and ours seems to the complete opposite.

The school is in a pretty deprived area and it just seems that there is a fatalistic and patronising attitude from the head - "Oh, these parents are working class, they can't be expected not to stand right next to the entrance smoking..." etc Shouldn't the school take more of an active role in promoting a healthy lifestyle?

Squeaky yes yes totally share experience and agree.

Amaronr, speak for yourself, I am 8 stone and size 8.

The fatties I see locally are all in twenties and thirties.

OP, good thing you posted here first, it's given you a flavour of the kind of reaction you might get at the forum!

It doesn't sound unreasonable to raise the issues but be prepared for resistance given reaction on this thread, could be similar reaction by other parents at the forum and you may end up alienating yourself. Just be careful how you couch the points.

You've only just started at the school by sounds of it, would say bide your time and pick your battles, as there may be other things which come up that you might feel more strongly about. But in principle, I don't think unreasonable to raise the points and ask what other parents at the school think. If you're new to the school, would focus on building up friendships and relationships so whatever your point of view, you still feel part of the community and people more open to what you have to say.

Our school has a sweet ban but chocolates/cakes allowed which I'm happy with. I think if you're suggesting a blanket ban on treats that's not going to be popular but you might be able to reach a compromise.

On the smoking, would discreetly sound people out who aren't part of the fags and pj set to see if you're not alone, strength in numbers etc.

Kids don't/can't have the same freedom anymore to play out

Of course they do, or should. The only danger to kids that has increased over recent years is a risk of them being robbed for mobile phones, ipods, or other gadgets that are "worth" mugging them for.

Younger children are in no more "danger" now playing out than they were 30 years ago.

I don't mind the birthday treats but I really oppose to teachers giving out sweets as treats. Horrible hard cheap chewy sweets are enough to yank out their tiny little teeth. My son was learning about healthy eating at school recently; was told pizza was really bad, the following day the school serves up pizza for lunch.

that is like saying a beefburger is "bad".

some pizza is healthy, if it has toppings like peppers, onions, chicken, olives... and burgers made with lean minced beef and onion then grilled or dry fried are also a healthy option..

Surely it is better to educate people into how to make "junk" food healthy rather than declare that "pizza is bad"..

Yep my dh makes healthy pizzas from
Scratch.

Good god. Some people really don't have enough to worry about. Shell out for private if you want to avoid the riff raff (ironic eyebrow raise).

thebody no, I don't speak for myself when I say what the average size of UK woman is.

Funny that you find it necessary to state your own weight...

I have no such issues. But I do have an issue with the constant feeding of sugary treats to our generation of children.

Yes, we do too. My son won't touch it now as he is convinced it is unhealthy.

smoking outside of school, well they are outside, as long as its not right by the school gate and kids are walking through great clouds of smoke then its neither here nor there, yes the school could put the posters up but i doubt it will make a difference.

the sweets are nothing to do with the school (well the egg was but that was a once a term thing and very nice of the teacher) they are brought in primarily by parents to celebrate their childs bday with friends, everyone does it and its no big deal, my kids are always getting those little ten pence bags of haribo or a lolipop etc, its a treat, not the kind i would buy but it doesnt make up a huge part of their diet so [shrug] its not something i am going to get my knickers in a twist about. IF i feel they ahve had too many sweets recently i may ask them to save it for another day (and secretly eat it at home myself as they will forget about it!) but they generally get handed out as they are coming out of the classroom and then eaten in the playground or on the way home.

my kids have a half hour walk each way to school, sometimes they bike or scooter, they play out in the garden or the cul de sac where we live and do sports clubs after school so i am happy they are getting a good amount of exercise and they eat a good balanced diet on the whole that INCLUDES some sweets and treats.

has the risk of them being injured by cars not gone up at all, squeakytoy?

I agree about the smoking. My DS is severely asthmatic and we had several smokers outside the door (even though it is a fineable offence) of the hospital and you are breathing it in. It's a health issue. Maybe try some posters indicating that

Wrt the lollies thing, if your child has a healthy diet for the rest of the week one treat (or even two, so you get a go as well) is not going to ruin them. You know that. It's a good association thing as well in that the children associate a really lucky, happy thing with school and the teacher.

Your DC will probably remember in years to come that you were the meanie who wouldn't let them have the sweets they were given.

It's common practice in our schools, it's in place of a birthday cake which is messy and time consuming to distribute.

Maybe individual cupcakes are more suitable for you.

What do you send in on your Dcs birthday?

The tone of the sweets issues changes when you state that there is a potential weight issue, you didn't say that in your op.

Nice that you got treats everyday at school.

Our schools have a 'Crunch 'n' Sip' policy where the children have apiece of friut or vegetable only (no yoghurt or tinned fruit, an actual piece of fruit/veg) and water only at about 9- 9.30 before recess (playluch?) and lunch. (Australia). Every School Day.

Maybe you could suggest adopting this policy in your school.

So they are being educated about having a healthy diet (only healthy tuckshop items also).

So the sweet thing occasionally is well balanced with fruit/veg regularly in the school environment. In addition to a healthy diet at home the birthday treats at school are a special treat even if once a week.

DD prefers fruit tbh and most of the sweets (except choc!) wind up laying around the house for me.

Some sugar and fat in the diet is necessary for healthy body function.

amarone, isn't the bad teeth thing due to no fluoride in the drinking water?

How will you cope with your child going to play dates at the other children's houses? I think you need to relax a little bit.

However I agree about the smoking. The pyjamas thing needs sorting too. How lazy can you be not to pull some jeans and a sweatshirt on? I wonder do they go back to bed in clothes they have walked down the road in?

Cheeseandpineapple Thank you, that's a really helpful post .

I'm not really sure why I'm being accused of snobbery:

Seems to me u are parents who boast about sending your kids to the local working class school to mix with kids if all 'classes' and then proceed to bitch about it when you are faced with the reality.

Sorry but that is bollocks. I do not boast about sending my son there and will freely admit it wasn't our first choice. However, even if we had got into our first choice we would still have been living in this area and we love it here for all sorts of reasons. However, we are going to move because the only secondary in the area is a total nightmare.

People standing around smoking in their pjs does not need to be the reality simply because we live here. The vast majority of the parents (and there are about 5 m/c parents in the school!) would not dream of doing that. It is a minority but when they are all clustered together right next to the gate, it seems like a lot and not a great environment for dc to walk into/past.

Maybe I am being a little OTT about the sweet thing but I really don't see why it is ridiculous to expect the school to play some role in this - healthy eating is essential for an all round healthy lifestyle and if some children are not getting the message at home they need to get it at school. and I say that as a secondary school teacher who is well aware how over-crowded the curriculum has become.

Saying that we all had sweets in the '70s and we're fine is great but how many of our contemporaries are now overweight/have teeth problems? People will all come on and say, "I am size 8 and so are all my friends," but what if we had some proper data to look at? As well as the weight and teeth issue, I think it's unhealthy to start in children's heads the association between reward and junk. Sometimes, in my 20s, I would sit down with a bar of chocolate and then think, "hang on, I'm not even hungry," and I would have picked it up as a treat because it was Friday or something without even considering whether I actually wanted it . I'm a size 8-10 before you ask.

I think a good compromise would be for schools to encourage (I know they can't force it) parents to give small non-food items or small chocolates, rather than the hard chewy stuff. I gave mini bags of buttons on ds's birthday (someone asked). Despite what some of you think, I would never make an example of him and make him feel left out and he was very excited about taking the sweets in.

People have said I'm mean for taking his sweets. Chocolate (and maybe the odd sweet) are fine in moderation but after a meal with a drink of water. No I don't want my child walking along the street with sweets on their own. They go to the park after school so no chance to brush teeth for quite a while. I don't think that is a healthy way to enjoy sweets.

Children love taking in sweets for their birthday. As long as you have a balanced diet there is nothing wrong with it. Taking them away is a sure way to give him an unhealthy attitude.
I would save your worries for the things that really matter, the quality of the education.

I was fussed about the sweets too, once upon a time, long time ago.
There are worse things.

Re: the sweets and chocolate specifically, children and teachers at the school I work in (sounds like a very similar area / social mix) are banned from giving any rewards / presents like this, due to the fact that we have several diabetic children and one complained to their parents that they were being left out.

What do the diabetic children at your DC's school get instead OP?

What exotic said.

Healthy Diet = healthy attitude + balanced diet.

And I can probably guarantee that no teachers will specifically say pizza is bad. They will say e.g. if you eat pizza and nothing else, that is bad for you. Try and wheedle out of children the exact words the teacher said and you will probably agree with them!

Long experience has shown that parents who over control diet end up with DCs with no control. It is what you do as a family that counts. They copy your eating habits as the norm. If you eat healthily and exercise they will too. They get to the age when they are out and about without you and have money-by then they need to self regulate.

A lollipop from school is a complete non issue.

At DS's school there are signs everywhere but people still smoke at the school gates. I find it a bit annoying as I have asthma which is triggered by smoke so I often end up standing like a billy no mates away from the smokers instead of having a nice chat while I wait for DS but it's a free country and smoking is legal so I suck it up and bring a book or play games/facebook on my phone.

With the junk food. We have this at ds's school but a bit of junk won't kill him. I haven't attempted to do a party yet [wimp emoticon] so it's nice to bring in sweets/cake/chocolate for the children in DS's class on his birthday after checking with the teacher if anyone has allergies. Mostly it's just a little thing like a lollipop or funsize chocolate bar that he comes home with which is fine although I have to admit that when DS2 came home from preschool with a selection box thing with 6 full size chocolate bars in I helped him eat that .

You know what - it's the over protection of children that leads to many of the social problems we face today. Wrapping them up in cotton wool does not help them at all.