To feel a bit miffed about "I can't shake hands with women for religious reasons"

[Hopefullyrecovering]

Which is what was said to me today, in a work context.

I have never heard of this before and googled it and apparently it is true that certain very orthodox forms of religion prohibit men shaking women's hands.

So I am torn between my inner liberal need for religious toleration, and thinking it's a damnfool sort of religion that prohibits a man from shaking a woman's hand and not just a little bit sexist too.

So, AIBU to feel miffed?

"I find some religions' attitudes to women appalling and do not feel that they should be condoned in our society where we believe in tolerance and equality." Well put, Roseetc.

Thebody, I like your posts, too.

Religion gives men supposed validation to treat women like lesser beings.

Here here alliwant

"WhereTF has it been suggested that a handshake leads to rape?
What an offensive suggestion!"

Yes, well, that is the reason why fundamentalist Muslims refuse to shake hands - because touching a woman's hand might lead to uncontrollable sexual urges in a man. Strange but true.

No woman is allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia, regardless of religion.

Are men really so out of control that the touch of a woman's hand could provoke him to violence? None of my male friends or colleagues are like that.

When in Rome....and all that.

I was glad to read of someone (EU country) who was refused a public service job (paid by tax payers i.e. me) because he wouldn't shake hands with women i.e. me.

It's only right.

After all, I don't walk around in mini skirts in the streets on holiday in Morocco.
Out of respect for their culture.

Why should it be different when the shoe is on the other foot?

In Europe it is a sign of respect when you meet someone, man or woman, to shake their hand.

Not just touch. Apparently, men are so weak that even the sight of a woman's arms, shoulder, or neck are enough to provoke uncontrollable sexual urges in them. Hence the reason why women are supposed to cover up everything but their hands and faces.

Uncontrollable sexual urges? Really?

yanbu
you are not a member of that religion, its your cultural norm to shake hands when meeting and greeting, and so you felt uncomfortable when that didn't happen. I think I would feel a bit strange about it, I'm not sure if it can be classed as being sexist but I think I would have had your response too.

not shaking hands would be Muslim or Jewish? sorry, no time to read the thread. they can't touch menstruating women, so they don't touch at all. that's fine by me.

That's the orthodox Jewish stance.

The fundamentalist Muslim one is that touching a woman's hand might cause them to get terribly aroused and that just wouldn't do

You are not about the not touching a menstruating woman cote? Surely both positions are deserving of a !

I also heard for the friend who works with orthodox Jews that the women shave their heads and replace with a wig. Which I find startling and can't get a good google explanation - if anyone could explain I'd be interested.

Ive never heard of the shaving of the head, I thought that was just a rumour. I could be wrong but, I thought the wig was worn the same way a scarf is to cover a muslim womens head. So that only her husband ever sees her hair. Im open to correction, though.

Oh I have s for more than that

Wigs are also common in Muslim women who for one reason or another can't wear headscarves at some point. You see, they can't show their own hair but can show someone else's clearly missing the point.

bringmesunshine (and anyone else interested) - jewish women who shave their heads are likely to be ultra-orthodox rather than merely orthodox and from chasidic communities. (Difference is kind of analagous to conservative protestants who are otherwise modern and amish folk). They tend not to wear wigs but headscarfs. What is more common is orthodox women who wear wigs and have a very nice hairstyle underneath it. The reason for this is a biblical stipulation (I am too tired to find it) that only one's husband should see one's hair. This is a "letter" rather than the "spirit" of the law interpretation. Much more relaxed but still religious Jews, such as my parents, who would still identify as orthodox, consider this rather silly and often hilarious, but it is a custom for this group that doesn't cause any identifiable harm for anyone else.

Re the not-shaking hand thing, again only ultra-orthodox Jews would abide by this and not even all of them - there is much discussion about whether outside of the community it should be kept to as the purpose of the rule is to avoid embarressment which as this thread demonstrates it does not achieve outside of the community.

Yes, these kind of customs may seem silly or offensive to most of us, but it is worthwhile remembering that many very traditionally religious people feel that they live in a world which strives to chip away at their cherished identity and that whilst these customs might not be religiously particularly important they help preserve that identity.

If you are very concerned about the sexism and when-in-Romeness of it it is worth remembering that even in the non-secular world we operate our own double standards when it comes to gender and touching. For instance, my (male) hairdresser and the manager of a restaurant I go to locally will always greet me and most women clients with a hug or a cheek kiss and would recoil from doing the same towards a man.

some women shave their heads for comfort under the wig. others keep hair short under the wig. some keep hair long and put up with a hot head under the wig. some don't wear a wig and cover the hair with a snood, scarf or hat.

oh, and i think there are some women who are not orthodox jews. i'm not sure. but i think so.

Astounded (again) that some people accept pretty much any behaviour (citing tolerance and respect) when it is carried out in the name of religion.

Captain, I can only speak for myself here, but I certainly don't accept any behaviour in the name of religion. I accept those which cause little harm and which mean something to the practioner of that religion. There is very little harm, vague offence or feeling "miffed" aside from not shaking someone's hand or from wearing a wig. There is a lot of harm from other behaviours, such as female genital mutilaiton, not educating your women past a certain age, discouraging prophylatic contraception or intolerance of homosexuality. I won't be defending those behaviours, or explaining them from my knowledge of the religion, on this thread or any other.

Bonnie , that is just a biggot.

I have female freinds who are orthadox jews, I respect them and their religion and cultures (although it is a little backward) Its their beliefs therefore I respect it. Orthadox are very proud people. I am honored I am a freind of theirs and let into their social circle, as some orthadox familys only socialise do buisness with other orthadox. Again this is part of their culture. I respect the cultures . My freinds who wear a hijab or burka will remove their veil (this does help as I am female) so I can understand what they are saying, but only if I have problems I will ask as i am severly deaf and rely on lip reading. Although I do carry a pen and paper around just in case we are in a crowded room for example.

Its all about learning about the people we live and work with and respecting their beliefs and cultures, and not to be shocked , but to research and understand.

cote, as a muslim who follows Quran and hadith, my understanding, is that wigs and fake hair are haram? do hadith rejectors not believe this?

Roseformeplease Sat 14-Apr-12 17:39:18
In Saudi you cover up completely. Christian women can't drive and you cannot be a witness to a crime. Rape does not exist inside marriage, even if Non Muslim. Alcohol is forbidden to all and Christian worship and symbols are banned. Yet Muslims demand that we respect them.

Saudi is the exception not the norm, in Morrocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Gambia, Dubai, Bahrain, Quwait, etc toursists dont cover up, and a lot of muslims dont cover up. Suadi is the only country where women cant drive and as far as i know they dont claim this is from Islam? You can get alcohol in the countries i mentioned above, as well as other intoxicants? There are CHristians in all these countries?

HOWAM i am interested in your experiences as a lip reader. would you say niqaab is an insurmountable barrier to communication for you?