to be proud of being a white english muslim?

[MoveBiatchGetOutTheWay]

Yes it sounds weird. Point is, some people (muslim and non muslim) are of the opinion you cannot possibly identify as this, but I love our culture and Im enjoying passing it down to my ds (in the form of afternoon tea and gentlemanly manners ;) )

I love my religion, and boy do I love my culture :)

Sorry, obv the US State department can get things really wrong sometimes .

Make sceptical faces all you like, I actually live here and I work in this field.

And is the US say it, it must be true!!!!

anyway, I am sick of this, the OP obviously got what she wanted, another boring and ill informed debate on Islam littered with Wiki and Google stats. Why I am bothering I don't know. Off to the beach.

Have read this thread from beginning to end and and as a muslim feel shocked and saddened by some of the anti-Islam comments on here. Yes there there are many Muslims who have a very warped interpretation of the Quran and Hadith and take some verses and sayings quite literally and out of context and they should be challenged at every opportunity (I agree with an earlier comment that its muslims who should be questioning ourselves, mosques, governments why our religion of peace is being used by our own to justify acts of violence and criminality) But the vast majority are law abiding, peaceful, happy go lucky citizens who have the same values, dreams, aspirations, etc as everybody else. I have met the type of converts that you mentioned and even I give them a wide berth after trying in vain to give them my take on Islam.

I love my religion, and hate it when Muslims and non Muslims misinterpret it and use it as a tool to spread hate and violence .

Lovely post dreaming

OP, how exciting for you! With the badge you've earned for this, and hopefully your drug-free childbirth and breastfeeding badges, you qualify for a free tea-towel and 2 pounds off bank holiday entrance to madame tussauds.

Dreamingocalm, I found it absolutely impossible to explain to people on here the difference between what Muslims do, which yes saddens me as well as a Muslim, and what Islam actually teaches. To me they are a world apart. My way of dealing with it as a convert to Islam, is to try to display in my day to day life, the teachings and values of Islam.
I chose after 16 years to cover my hair for 2 reasons one being that after all these years of saying it did not matter I woke up one day and realised it actually did and I should in a way "put my money where my mouth is" and assume the fact I was now a Muslim woman fully. The other reason is that now, being a more "visible" Muslim, people can link my actions with my religion and maybe see that Muslims can make a very positive contribution to the society.

I cannot remember which poster earlier asked why women on here who had converted to Islam did it and mainly if it was because they married into Islam so to speak. I my case I came to the UK to learn English from my continental country of origin and had to find a place to live. Maybe it was fate but I ended up through a friend sharing a flat with herself (who never converted to Islam), her husband to be who was a Muslim, his brother and another couple of men who were Muslims too. You know what, I saw a side of Islam I had never seen in the medias back home or even here. I saw men respectful of me who never tried it on, I saw men who were having God in their day to day life, thanking him for whatever good or bad was happening to them, getting strength from their 5 daily prayers and I got jealous. Jealous because although I was a Christian at the time, my life was totally devoid of God, even during religious festivals. Jealous because they had that close relationship with God and I did not. Not once did they try to convert me, they patiently answered all my questions without getting cross even though what I wanted to do was actually challenging them to "trip them up".

I converted after maybe a year and then went back to my own country to pursue my education . I still stayed in contact with my friend and through her and her now husband with the others too. After a few months being back, now DH started showing interest in me and through my atheist Dad asked for my hand (funnily enough, my Dad was really impressed by the fact his opinion mattered) because I had spent time with him and knew what kind, fair and generous man he was I accepted and have never regretted it, 14 years on. Yes I am a Muslim woman but asside from not eating pork or drinking alcohol anymore and having a piece of cloth on my head (I have not changed at all the way I dress other than adding that recently) I do everything I always did.

Sorry, although very long, I did not make it clear that DH was one of my flatmates . I have moved back to UK after the wedding.

I think it's the 'visibility' that people object to. The SHOUTING I am a Muslim by wearing a hijab, it is the first thing about you that you wish to communicate, people would rather see you than your religion. The 'visibility' is the thing that separates you....and sends a message of submission.

I wear a hijab Posie, but first and foremost I'm a human being. Why can't you just see that first?

Hijab isn't people shouting, surely that is the way others perceive them because of their own opinions? I come from very right on lefty family and the first time my mum came to Qatar she kept staring at the women and loudly saying how terrible it was. A Qatari woman came over and said she was the director of an international bank and resented being felt sorry for. But she did not go on to say that she felt sorry for mum not being a Muslim did she?

Posie - I have concerns about the Hijab because it is imo about men not being tempted by women's uncovered hair.

Buy why shouldn't muslims be visible? I have no problem for example with christians wearing crosses or having fish symbols on their car. Nothing wrong with visibility imo, as long as you are not trying to convert me.

I think the UK has a very different attitude towards women who wear the hijab, maybe as if they are not representing women properly? Elsewhere it's just normal people with normal lives on the whole.

Posie, just in case your comment :

"I think it's the 'visibility' that people object to. The SHOUTING I am a Muslim by wearing a hijab,"

is in answer to my:

"being a more "visible" Muslim, people can link my actions with my religion"

It is not to SHOUT that I am a Muslim, it is to redress the balance of image from what is portrayed in medias, that Islam is a violent brutal religion. If I go on day to day without a scarf it will not redress that balance because all the time I am investing in my community (not Muslim) will be seen as good but the image of Islam will not change. I am just trying to show that being a Muslim is not the same as being evil and rotten to the core nif you are a man or sub-servant if you are a woman or uneducated which ever sex you happen to be. It is very hard to do that without showing you are are Muslim whilst still trying to do positive things and just get on with my life really,that is all.

As Muslims we could shout until we are blue in the face that our religion is not what is portrayed in the media, it will not make any difference if we do not show a positive example.

thebody Sat 14-Apr-12 01:01:46
Defuse i couldnt give a shit about Islam or any religion tbh. The thing is though yes bastard men in all countries but in England they are actually held to account!!! Not so I 'Muslim countries' as its quite ok to beat the crap out of your wife isn't it? Sharia law ?

If that's what u think is ok then up to u !!! I want better for my dd and teach my Dcs to respect women.

Respect btw means freedom not restriction.

have you seen the rape and domestic violence stats recently?

anyway respect means freedom? so a woman is free to take of her clothes and strip, or be a prostitute etc that is respect? i dont think that makes any sense tbh.

YANBU.Whatever floats your boat!

thebody Defuse i couldnt give a shit about Islam or any religion tbh. The thing is though yes bastard men in all countries but in England they are actually held to account!!! Not so I 'Muslim countries' as its quite ok to beat the crap out of your wife isn't it? Sharia law ?

You are wrong again!! that is not sharia law. I take it that you get your facts from DM on all things muslim! So, now you are telling me that all men are held to account in UK? Wrong again. The conviction rates for rape are appalling - and that's just the one's that even get to court.

I want better for my dd and teach my Dcs to respect women.

you and every muslim mother wants that. However, you seem to respect only the removal of clothes whereas muslims are taught to respect women full stop. Whether they abide by those teachings or not is their choice, but islam demands respect for humans - whether you believe it or not.

To quote your own words;
'Respect btw means freedom not restriction'

That also includes freedom to dress the way a woman chooses to.

^Oh and btw we have stats on domestic violence!! Does any Muslim
Country? Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Sudan etc, don't be a twat love^

well, lots of posters have already presented facts on this statement of yours.

As much as i would love to copy and paste your last few words back to you - i won't. That is because islam also demands that profanity not be used. Whether one abides by it or not is their choice too. It does make me question the fact that do you truly respect women if you are quite willing to use bad language purely because your arguments don't stand!

'Posie why should my attire not be visible? That is my choice. You accuse us of being invisible behind the hijab and now you are accusing the hijab of being too visible.

We aren't going to get anywhere with this one.

Part of my family is muslim, live in a Muslim country. The women teach, work, run their own businesses have their own money and property, and go about their lives. They are not beaten or prisoners in their homes. They drive, have dogs and go out for meals. They are all highly educated and are free to travel.

They wear headscarves in their own country but take them off at Gatwick airport. The point, they tell me, is not to make yourself stand out, so they look like any Italian or French tourist (as they are often mistaken for). They don't say 'inshallah' -ever!

I'm CofE and have never had a problem with any one of themneed dot one in-law who hadn't travelled and was being snidey an out western dress until another member of the family (Muslim) asked exactly why she thought a scrap of fabric made her a better person when she spoke hateful words (high five to him!)

Howevere, they do view other practices as different - so a woman in Afghanistan will be viewed as a having very little freedom or control in her life. She has many things denied to her (in some places - rural worse than urban), and they have met refugees in their charity work and the stories would make your hair curl. They do not see these issues as Muslim but cultural problems (beating, not being able to drive...).

I think we need to look more at cultural and socio-economic differences rather than just tar everyone with the same brush.

I don't have a problem with people following their religion. If it doesn't turn them into a bigot, or use it as an excuse to have the upper hand over their family, colleagues etc etc etc. I am not keen of face coverings because I feel it is a barrier - and that is not good for our society in my opinion. And TBH I find the Saudi gold masks quite scary!

I actually think the gold masks (if you mean the leather ones frequently 'painted' (or something) gold) were probably a blessing in years gone by in the Gulf. Between the force of the sun and the occasional exfoliation by sandstorm, the weather is not kind to the skin here - and they didn't have sunscreen. Some kind of face protection was probably a sensible adjustment to the climate (just as not eating pork in the days when the Jewish and Muslim dietary laws were being established was very wise on the grounds of avoiding food poisoning).

And I think they (the masks) look fabulous, though have only seen them close up on very limited occasions (always on older ladies).

The head and face covering of women under 80 is frankly awful.....so many bad messages about women.

'Yes there there are many Muslims who have a very warped interpretation of the Quran and Hadith and take some verses and sayings quite literally ..'

The problem in some parts of the ME and south Asia is that in place of constitutions, and laws, and legal guarantees of human rights, all there is is the Koran and Hadith, as interpreted by individual judges, and people getting the short end of the stick cannot speak up for themselves because to do so would be to go against their religion. The same thing happened in Ireland with the cases of abuse of women and children by the RC clergy and nuns.

i'm not up for covering faces, as we should all be seen for security reasons. for example, on entering buildings or public transport we should show our faces (eg removing motorcycle helmets, not just niqab) and be seen on the cctv, even if we cover again later.
but i see nothing wrong with the scarf. cover your hair. scarf, snood, whatever. it's just like having a particular hairstyle. i think muslim scarves look good - neat and tidy.

Ok look I am not criticising anyone personally, it's up to u what u belive but I just can't for the life of me understand any sensible liberated woman covering her face, body, head??? Why? Does Allah find u offensive? No he made u and all that crap is man made.

Similarly I don't get Christianity or Judaism, all are about control, especially of us as women.

If u r happy to be controlled by a long dead 'phrophet' Mohammed, Jesus etc?(amazing how all the knowledge was spouted by blokes) then up to u but excuse us free thinking lassies not validating your fears and insecurities.

My dh and Dcs aren't rampantly sexual beasts out of coontrol if the see a woman's hair, seriously they r fine with this.

I hope Islamic women soon have their own Spring, please god for the sake of their dds also fundamentalist Christians who spout hate and control as well.