AIBU to not allow my DD in the taxi with this man?

[mickeyvsminnie]

My DD is 13. We live very rurally and the council provide a taxi for her and several other village children due to our distance from the school. I suppose it's the country equivalent of a school bus!

Anyway, she is in year 8 so has been going in the taxi for almost two years now. There is one driver - I shall call him 'Dave,' who does some of the journeys, along with Paul and Marie - the owners of the taxi company [ the council contract out the job ].... Dave does around 50% of the journeys.

My DD has mentioned several times to me in the past that he is a 'bit weird ' and she 'feels uncomfortable ' when in the taxi on her own with him [ this happens sometimes due to other drop off/illness of other kids etc] but I brushed it off until a few weeks ago.

She was off school for a day or two with a stomach bug. She returned to school and was alone in the taxi with Dave on her first day back. He asked her if she was feeling better, she replied ' yes thank you.' He then said ' was it your periods that you were off with? ' and she was obviously mortified. He then went on to talk about my DDs friend , referring to her as the 'under developed ' girl and ' I bet she hasn't started her periods yet .. ' My DD said he often talks about 'girl things' like this.

So, I call the council and tell them that i feel this is highly inappropriate for any man, let alone a taxi driver in his 50s with the job of driving young girls to and from school. They take it seriously, speak to Paul, the owner of the company and Dave is spoken to. 'Yes,' he says, he did indeed speak to DD about her periods but he thought this was entirely normal and he is puzzled as to why it is not appropriate. the council call me to advise they will look into further but they will remove Dave from the runs. I reiterate that I do NOT think he is a padophile - more that he is crass, highly inappropriate and stupid. I then think that this is the end of it.

Anyway, the council call me again today. They wish to reinstate Dave to driving the kids again. He will have 'additional training' and they will ensure that DD is not alone with him [ they cannot ensure this - what happens if a child is ill, for example? ' ]

I am unhappy with this. My DD would not want to be in a taxi with him - far to mortified and uncomfortable.

So- WWYD? AIBU to insist that he is NOT to drive the children to school, that this is a possible warning sign that should be heeded?

TIA!

I know it's not an indicator on its own that someone has or is likely to do anything, but I was thinking along the same lines as thebody and Levi Bellfield who used to say similarly inappropriate things to young girls.

I don't believe anyone could not know they would be inappropriate to say, they say a lot to me about how this man is able to step over boundaries and use the power he has as someone to be trusted for his own ends, even if it's just to make the girls feel uncomfortable.

If he's capable (or if he just doesn't know it's inappropriate) then what else is he capable of (or doesn't know about)?

I'd want to know where the council defines that risk boundary to be? What does he have to do to be considered a risk?

Sorry, missed a few words out

I meant 'If he's capable of taking in such a way to young girls...'

He has just called me again to say that he is passing it back to their SS department and they will be in touch and it will mean ' interviewing your daughter and taking statements '

Err, no it fucking won't. I am not having her interviewed. What for? He admitted he said those things about periods and development and is sorry for any offence caused. And this is my problem how?

Christ- what a bunch of idiots

The very strong consensus on this thread is that you are not over reacting. Please keep repeating that to yourself. You are not squealing that he is about to foist himself on your DD, but (SGB summed it up beautifully earlier on, as usual) either he is a man with an unhealthy interest in female puberty or he gets his jollies making young women feel humiliated and uncomfortable. Both of those mean he is unsuited for this role, retraining or not retraining.
There was a male cleaner at my school who loved to ask us about our periods. I remember it clearly 25 years later. It is not nice and it is not normal. Escalate it if you need to.

You are absolutely right to refuse your daughter being "interviewed". What a bunch of morons, as you rightly say.

I would not have anything more to do with them verbally, it will just make you more angry and give them more leeway to be more idiotic, as we have seen. Just writing. They will take you seriously then.

I do empathise though. How horrible, we really don't need to deal with this extra crap in our lives. But I am sure you will get a good outcome, as I said earlier, if you pursue this in a different way.

Just read your up date and it 'his gut feeling' WTF???

Why is his gut feeling of more importance than yours, or more importantly your daughters..I can feel the rage building in me on your & her behalf.

It not as if your daughter said he ..smelt of something, he made her feel uncomfortable, he made several inappropriate comments, he must have seen she was uncomfortable.

You need to get in writing what the risk assessment proccess was who carried it out what thier qualifications are to carry out this proccess. I mean 'gut feeling' really.

If a forensic psychologist said that I might take it seriously, but some bloke from the council.

You do know though that if this gu is dodgy, he will now have another weapon i his back pocket, he will have been checked out and 'passed' so anyone complaining after this will be labled a trouble maker etc.

Op, I commented on your original thread that I thought you should tell other parents with DDs who use this taxi service, because I think it is not just your daughter that may be at risk from this man. It would also be useful to know if there are other girls who've had similar conversations - I'd pretty much bet there are, which would give you more ammunition when talking to the council.

This might be useful www.childrenslegalcentre.com

I agree that this person should be brought to the attention of the police, honestly, his behaviour has "predatory grooming" written all over it.

Also, by not doing something to get this man's taxi licence revoked or his disclosure certificate revoked, other children may be put at risk.

The cheek! they aren't the police ffs!

I work in a special school where children are transported to and from school in taxis - ALL HAVE ESCORTS, even if there is more than 1 child in the car, so I don't understand why your daughter doesn't have an escort.

I think you definitely need to contact your local children's safeguarding board with your concerns. You are NOT overreacting, and the numpty from the council with his "gut feelings" is behaving in a bizarre fashion!

FWIW we as a school have raised concerns about taxi drivers in the past for several reasons - have you spoken to your school, and what is their view?

If the OP refuses the interview for her DD, (which might be in a series of procedures SS have to go through to deal with the complaint), can they (council and SS) then say 'Well, we've offered to investigate it but the OP refused, therefore, nothing else will happen' does anyone know?

There are a lot of organisations where you go along with the current of their procedures verbatim, or you don't and drop out, there doesn't seem to be anything in between.

It's possible the bloke from the council might not be being a numpty Jeremy, he could be trying to fob the OP off and stop the council having a claim of this sort to deal with and come up in their statistics somewhere.

You see it with bullying in schools all the time.

I referred to him as a numpty because anyone with a smidge of knowledge about child protection and safeguarding issues (as this council risk assessment officer clearly must have) would be mad to rely on a "gut instinct". Safeguarding training (and I've only had the very basic version) teaches you that paedophilic sexual predators will not only groom the child but will assidiously "groom" the adults around them as well, so they are universally liked and seen as a jolly good egg.

Now I am in now way suggesting that this taxi driver is a paedophile - but his comments were completely inappropriate, and enough to raise serious concerns. If (heaven forbid) there were an incident and some sort of enquiry or cout action ensued, then council-numpty's "gut instinct" won't go down very well in court or on the front page of the Daily Fail.

Sorry to come over all melodramatic!

Send them a link to this thread and let them see for themselves how over-whelmingly the mothers on it agree that he should NOT be anywhere near your daughter.

I wasn't being shitty about what you'd said Jeremy, just that his fobbing the OP off might be intentional and manipulative rather than just because he's not qualified and genuinely can't see the problem.

It's not within the councils interests for there to be a problem, like if they lose a driver or having to sort out the mess that having such a driver on their books would entail.

I'm sure making the OP feel as though she's being OTT would be easier all round for him.

OP, I think he is trying to "scare" you to drop it.

I think this is now a case for the police and also the school.

He is behaving like "Dave" is his dad....

well, the whole vibe of the conversations was definitely all about me being slightly OTT- he actually said at one point that he felt there was ' nothing to worry about' in his opinion.

Suddenly the council deal in opinions and feelings as opposed to facts in hand. I have never been ott over this - but i cant stick a 13 year old girl back in a taxi with him

Write it all down now while it is fresh in your mind, pop the lot in an e-mail to your local MP. I'd also e-mail back to the council asking them to put in writing that your DD will never be in a situation where she is with his person without another adult present, another child is not a chaperone.

Also contact the school, it might be that they have no control over this, but they would be very interested in a possible child protection issue, the council are only saying your DD won't be alone with him, the school might want to make sure all children are kept away from him.

If this man was in an office and asked a female co-worker about her periods, he would probably be disciplined. However, he is not talking to one of his peers here, he is talking to a vulnerable child. My DD goes to school by taxi (with an escort though), and I would be furious if anyone spoke to her about her body and it's changes without my knowledge or consent.

shockers makes a good point re colleague. OP stick to your guns and fight this every step of the way.

This man has behaved in a totally inappropriate way and should not be driving children around.

I've been reading this today and it has been playing on my mind more and more. I'm usually of the mindset that people make honest mistakes but this to me smacks of something much more sinister.
I just keep thinking how 99.9% of men simply would not instigate a conversation about periods, not least with a child. Furthermore if a woman/girl is off sick a normal thought process is not to assume that it is period related let alone to voice that. Where did he expect this conversation to lead? What did he want your DD to say?
I also just keep musing on the thought process at work here whereby a grown man has a 13 year old little girl (not long out of primary school) in the back of his car and he is looking at her and thinking about her state of physical development or lack of. In my mind there is something very wrong here.

If I were a parent I would feel very uncomfortable at the thought of this man being around my DD or in fact any other children. It sounds to me like the council are attempting to use to their advantage the fact that you don't want to make a big song and a dance & attempting to sweep this under the carpet. Jobsworth at the council is not qualified to say whether this taxi driver is a danger to a child. "Gut instinct" is not an adequate resolution to your very valid concern.

mean't they are attempting to swepp this under the carpet, not you OP.

Your council are behaving very in a very uncouncil-like way. Last year I made a telephone complaint about a street cleaner who made a comment to me that could have been taken in a number of ways, but I took as sexual harassment as it had upset me. This is what happened:

1. I rang the general council number and stated my complaint
2. Later that day the relevant section manager phoned me to apologise and find out what had happened
3. She visited me at home to get my story
4. She wrote to me to say they were trying to locate the member of staff. If he was agency staff he would be instantly dismissed, if council staff he would be disciplined - and the other staff on duty that day were to be interviewed
5. A got a letter a couple of weeks later to say that he had been found and discliplined, and that the whole team had been sent on training
6. She phoned me to follow up and apologise again, and to say that he would not be working in my area again.

I am an adult and this is what they did. I also used to work for a different council and they were constantly sending us on training courses re safeguarding. At the slightest whiff of a complaint involving a child or vulnerable adult, the staff member would not be anywhere near one until proven innocent. Councils are usually falling over themselves to avoid being sued/bad publicity in this area.

So why are your council behaving so differently? Have you considered making a complaint about their procedures?