AIBU to not allow my DD in the taxi with this man?

[mickeyvsminnie]

My DD is 13. We live very rurally and the council provide a taxi for her and several other village children due to our distance from the school. I suppose it's the country equivalent of a school bus!

Anyway, she is in year 8 so has been going in the taxi for almost two years now. There is one driver - I shall call him 'Dave,' who does some of the journeys, along with Paul and Marie - the owners of the taxi company [ the council contract out the job ].... Dave does around 50% of the journeys.

My DD has mentioned several times to me in the past that he is a 'bit weird ' and she 'feels uncomfortable ' when in the taxi on her own with him [ this happens sometimes due to other drop off/illness of other kids etc] but I brushed it off until a few weeks ago.

She was off school for a day or two with a stomach bug. She returned to school and was alone in the taxi with Dave on her first day back. He asked her if she was feeling better, she replied ' yes thank you.' He then said ' was it your periods that you were off with? ' and she was obviously mortified. He then went on to talk about my DDs friend , referring to her as the 'under developed ' girl and ' I bet she hasn't started her periods yet .. ' My DD said he often talks about 'girl things' like this.

So, I call the council and tell them that i feel this is highly inappropriate for any man, let alone a taxi driver in his 50s with the job of driving young girls to and from school. They take it seriously, speak to Paul, the owner of the company and Dave is spoken to. 'Yes,' he says, he did indeed speak to DD about her periods but he thought this was entirely normal and he is puzzled as to why it is not appropriate. the council call me to advise they will look into further but they will remove Dave from the runs. I reiterate that I do NOT think he is a padophile - more that he is crass, highly inappropriate and stupid. I then think that this is the end of it.

Anyway, the council call me again today. They wish to reinstate Dave to driving the kids again. He will have 'additional training' and they will ensure that DD is not alone with him [ they cannot ensure this - what happens if a child is ill, for example? ' ]

I am unhappy with this. My DD would not want to be in a taxi with him - far to mortified and uncomfortable.

So- WWYD? AIBU to insist that he is NOT to drive the children to school, that this is a possible warning sign that should be heeded?

TIA!

Why are they fighting sooooo hard to keep this man.??

Who is he related to ?

I am wondering whether the council's reaction is based on the fact that you keep saying you don't think Dave is a paedophile/groomer/whatever. Perhaps to this safeguarding officer, if the person complaining seems to agree with his gut instinct, ie, that Dave is just a bit socially inept, then where's the problem? I'm not saying I agree with this assessment, but it could be a reason behind their behaviour.

iwantcandy - that is very helpful - I shall make some notes based on that.

Ginger/immature - the taxi firm want to keep him because he has driven for them for donkey's years and they really need help with the school runs that they do. Staffing seems to be an issue..he is needed for the rota. I have not banged on too much about the fact that i don't think he is a paedophile - this safe guarding officer is now under no illusion as to what I think about his 'gut instincts '

I have spoken to DD about this in more detail and asked her if she can remember anything else. She says he spoke about periods around 4 times, mentioned her friend's development to her once [ referred to her as under developed ] and he spoke a lot about ballerinas being sexy and dancing in a sexy way.

I agree with previous posters that you need to document in writing exactly what your DD has told you, and why it is inappropriate for this driver to transport children. As well as sending this written objection to the person who telephoned you, I think you should also copy in the transport manager at the council, head of SS, taxi firm owner , and the head teacher and governing body of your DD's school. The school will have a safeguarding officer who may think it appropriate for the school to intervene on behalf of their pupils (and I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but I believe schools have historically held some responsibility for pupils' safe transport to school).

OK, have only read the OP, not the rest of the thread, and I'd just like to say that I am fairly non-hysterical about this kind of thing but...WTF? He may not be an actual paedophile but he is certainly showing all the hallmarks of someone who is in the early stages of grooming, or else he is just an incedibly stupid and over-familiar man with no boundaries and no sense of professionalism. Either way your daughter should not be expected to share the car with him again - especially not alone.

Ah, cross post - I see you have already thought of that !

Don't just put everything in writing - get it in writing too. If you haven't already done it, make the council sit up with a start by emailing the risk assessment person and copying in the director of education personally with the question, "Do you confirm that John Smith of Speedy Taxis said, to my daughter, Susie Brown?"

Before you press send, CC the email to your local MP too . Let the council know you mean business. Don't forget to immediately send another copy of the email to the MP but this time with a covering message above it explaining the background and telling them that the copy email is currently for their information so that they have the background to hand should you need to ask them to step in.

That the Director of Education is made aware, that the MP is CC'd and that the council will be pushed into admitting the behaviour in writing might just get you results.

If the council ignore or fudge the question - and anything but a "yes he did" isn't good enough, ask again. Firmly. "I didn't ask if you'd spoken to John Smith, I asked if he had said "XYZ" to my daughter, Susie Brown. Please answer the question." Each time you have to repeat it, copy your MP in on it.

Seriously, this was a matter that should have been looked at by the POLICE, not the council - and still should be even at this late stage.

CBR check - worthless if no one is going to report disturbing behaviour to the police, if they knew about this, even if no charges were brought, I doubt he would be deemed suitable for work with children.

My initial reaction to this post is "grooming" and I trust my instincts

thank wen- that's useful.

I have emailed my local MP, initially just to ask him to confirm that he is indeed the MP for this area/council and that this would be his remit. s soon as he comes back to me I shall email him with the whole thing and i will be contacting the school on monday as well as talking to SS to enquire as to why they consider this to be a training issue as opposed to a safe guarding children one.

And that's interesting about 'grooming.' It is often the case that paedophiles are in positions of trust - obviously. They only get to hold these positions of trust by manipulating the adults around them - so what makes the guy from the council so damn sure about his 'gut instincts' God alone knows.

OP I can't believe you are still going round the houses with the council instead of reporting to the police.
Its not your call to decide whether this man is socially inept or a paedophile, its up to the police. Incidentally many paedos do a good line as coming across as socially inept to evade suspicion etc, and indeed many actually do lack social skills altogether.
Paedophiles don't have horns. They rely on people thinking not trusting their own suspicions so they get away with initial low level grooming then worse. Given that upwards of 1 in 10 children are thought to be subject to sexual abuse in some form then there are more paedophiles about than you might think. This man needs checked out by the police. Please do it!

candle - report him to the police for what though? He has talked about periods several times, mentioned a girl being under developed and talked about ballerinas being sexy dancers. He has never talked about sex or boyfriends with her.

From what i can see, his comments veer more towards inappropriate and than anything else. And i am quite sure he will hold an enhanced CRB check which will still be in force. the police can do nothing. plus i dont want my dd dragged into all of this.

I want him removed from driving children around.

Bored as someone else said it sounds like grooming...if you mention that then the police WILL take it seriously...report him for tying to groom her.... and your DD is ALREADY dragged into all of this...

Yes OP the comments are inappropriate towards a 13 year old, or any other child, so why are you not reporting to the police. And, if you think its not grooming why are you even bothering creating all this drama with the council, what is your point? Either the comments are sexually inappropriate or they are not, there is no grey area here,and thats for the police to decide.
Where is it you think that child abusers start if its not comments/ discussion to see what they can get away with?
Sorry for sounding harsh but ffs!

I'm not creating any 'drama.'

What I want is simple - him removing from the rota, an assurance that he will not be driving children around. I don't feel that me involving the police is necessary.

Obviously, that is my OWN personal opinion and not one I expect to be universally shared. I can only do what I feel is best - and I am doing that.

Just another thought or two here - it may be an idea to email the council for a copy of their complaints procedure, their child protection policy and any other similar, relevant policy you can think of. Then go through it with a fine tooth comb, identifying any areas where the council have broken their own rules or the law and point these out to the Director and your MP, quoting and referring to the LA's own policy/the law by title and section. (I've been there and done that, as well ).

Any failure to follow the law or their own policy can (and IMHO should) be referred to the Local Government Ombudsman. If that's necessary the procedure is easy to follow, generally fast and very fair IME and you'll be treated with courtesy. There's nothing to be scared of. :)

If the council aren't forthcoming with answers to any of your questions you can ask them under the Freedom Of Information Act - there they have to answer unless there are special reasons why not and you can escalate the issue if they don't. The only downside of FOI requests is that councils etc can be bastards for dragging their heels if it conveniences them by making full use of the 40 days they have in which to respond so a straightforward request for info (to the Director of Education, cc'd to your MP of course) can be quicker - my advice would be ask informally (but in writing) first, throw a FOI request in if it's clear they're refusing to play ball.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/
It's very easy to make a FOI request via this website - I'd recommend it.

Finally, if you don't think that the response you're getting from the DOE is good enough don't forget you can then copy the Director of the entire local authority into your emails with a request that he instructs his staff to answer your questions and deal with your concerns.

I don't understand. Either you think this man shouldn't be driving children around in which case have a chat with the police, or you think he is safe
I understand that you don't want your DD dragged into anything but surely it is better for her to learn from you that you can and should go to the police when you need help and advice rather than keeping it a secret? Or am I being naive?

OP it's really odd that you ae happy to let this lie without police involvement...he spoke to your DD about things which are sexual by nature...that would be enough for me...your word is not enough for the council to act obviously.

They can't go sacking every driver that someone makes claims against....it looks suspect if you aren't prepared to back up your belief that he is not suitable to drive kids by contacting the police.

He might say things to other kids.

I agree with socks that your DD needs to see that this kind of thing IS taken very seriously....she's got nothing to be ashamed of!

Also she is 13 not 6...so she can cope with an interview. My sister was almost abducted at the age of 8 and she had to be interviewed. The man in question shouted at her , ordered her into his car and told her off....he yelled at her in a way that would frighten most kids into thinking they had done something wrong....luckily she was bright and ran away...she was interviewed by the police.

If my Mum had not taken her tale seriously, she may have felt to blame or the man may not have been located. (he was)

I didn't know this until I started actually sending off for CRB's, but there is a way that police can pass on information that might not want to go on an applicants copy of the CRB. It is a very awkward situation because you as the person asking for the CRB can't say anything about it to the applicant but it might be something that you wouldn't want to employ someone over. I guess it is probably most often used if someone is the subject of an ongoing investigation but hasn't been convicted of anything. This could be used for suspicions (sp?) of this type though. So it might be worth talking to the police.

CRB's are just a snapshot of time. They say something about the day they were checked and nothing else. Ok, you don't have to have them redone every day, but it doesn't really mean anything to say something has an enhanced CRB still in force. And finally, a clear CRB just means that they haven't been caught yet - or in this guy's case, maybe that he has never done anything quite bad enough for someone to pursue it.

I am surprised that there is not a chaperone. TBH although i agree with you, i think it is a inappropriate situation for a stranger to be alone with your child in this way.

I still don't get how you think his comments are not appropriate but at the same time not sexual? What do you think his intention was? What normal man discusses issues in a sexual way with a child? What would his reason be? I'm confused by the way you seem to be processing this situation. You said he didn't ask about boyfriends as though this def means he had no sinister intentions?! You also weren't there and as such you have interpreted this situation on your daughter's behalf.
What do you think would have happened next if your dd didn't tell you about this man's behaviour and continued getting into his taxi.
Not wanting to create a "fuss" will be sending a clear message to your daughter as previous posters said. I
think your current course of action is either totally naive at best or you are just trying to make some kind of name for yourself with the council .
What would you report to the police? Er, just what the man said. Then watch them sit back and do nothing .

Wow! Just wow.
They want you to lie down and give it a rest. Glad to see you're not going to.
I'm curious as to whether they're asking you or informing you re: him being reinstated. How much say do you have in this?

If it's the latter, and they're just telling you as a "courtesy" then I'd be even more cross (although I agree you sound very measured and sensible abut it) and be determined t put a stop to it.

The bottom line for you is that this man no longer drives your daughter to school. I'm kind of hoping you at least have the power to veto that. But what about them switching him to drive other kids? It seems that the only influence you could have on that is to take it higher and report it to the police. I understand your reluctance to do that, however.

I'm really surprised by the council. I complained about a driver, they spoke to his colleagues who confirmed my story (and added a few more I didn't know about) and he was gone within 24 hours. And tbh the potential for actual harm was probably less in my case. They take safeguarding incredibly seriously usually.

I would email a stage 1 complaint -(you can usually do this via the council website), then copy that separately to mp etc. I have done this before. A stage 1 complaint can't be robbed off in the way a regular complaint can be as the process can continue up to the LGO if you remain unhappy with the outcome.

It's really not appropriate that this man is working with children.