AIBU to not allow my DD in the taxi with this man?

[mickeyvsminnie]

My DD is 13. We live very rurally and the council provide a taxi for her and several other village children due to our distance from the school. I suppose it's the country equivalent of a school bus!

Anyway, she is in year 8 so has been going in the taxi for almost two years now. There is one driver - I shall call him 'Dave,' who does some of the journeys, along with Paul and Marie - the owners of the taxi company [ the council contract out the job ].... Dave does around 50% of the journeys.

My DD has mentioned several times to me in the past that he is a 'bit weird ' and she 'feels uncomfortable ' when in the taxi on her own with him [ this happens sometimes due to other drop off/illness of other kids etc] but I brushed it off until a few weeks ago.

She was off school for a day or two with a stomach bug. She returned to school and was alone in the taxi with Dave on her first day back. He asked her if she was feeling better, she replied ' yes thank you.' He then said ' was it your periods that you were off with? ' and she was obviously mortified. He then went on to talk about my DDs friend , referring to her as the 'under developed ' girl and ' I bet she hasn't started her periods yet .. ' My DD said he often talks about 'girl things' like this.

So, I call the council and tell them that i feel this is highly inappropriate for any man, let alone a taxi driver in his 50s with the job of driving young girls to and from school. They take it seriously, speak to Paul, the owner of the company and Dave is spoken to. 'Yes,' he says, he did indeed speak to DD about her periods but he thought this was entirely normal and he is puzzled as to why it is not appropriate. the council call me to advise they will look into further but they will remove Dave from the runs. I reiterate that I do NOT think he is a padophile - more that he is crass, highly inappropriate and stupid. I then think that this is the end of it.

Anyway, the council call me again today. They wish to reinstate Dave to driving the kids again. He will have 'additional training' and they will ensure that DD is not alone with him [ they cannot ensure this - what happens if a child is ill, for example? ' ]

I am unhappy with this. My DD would not want to be in a taxi with him - far to mortified and uncomfortable.

So- WWYD? AIBU to insist that he is NOT to drive the children to school, that this is a possible warning sign that should be heeded?

TIA!

Let's just imagine for a minute that the child passenger was a member of a minority ethnic group and/or wearing something that identified him/her as a member of a particular religious sect. And suppose the driver asked questions that, while not obviously aggressive or insulting, were nosy and made the child uncomfortable (Is it true you're not allowed to cut your hair?)
Don't you think the driver would be out of a job so fast his feet didn't touch the floor? Even though the sort of, for want of a better term, benign xenophobia some old farts haven't learned to conceal doesn't indicate any risk of them harming other people?

I too would be very concerned about this and my daughter would not be getting into a taxi with this man ever again.

I hope that you get somewhere with the council.

Fucking hell. How can anyone allow him to continue to drive young girls around.

I would definitely ask about safeguarding procedures as people have said.

The council's potential liability might be the angle that will make them listen. If they send him back to drive children around and something does happen, they could be sued. that it would take that to get them to listen, but it might be the best bet.

^ Pointing out the potential liability, obviously.

What a creep, I don't for one second believe that he didn't know what he was doing, he would not have had that conversation with your daughter if you, her father or any responsible adult were there. If he was that stupid somebody would have put him straight before now. Nobody in their right mind would trust him with their child's safety, under no circumstances allow her anywhere near him and make sure that every other parent is aware of his inappropriate behaviour.

Make a complaint to the police, while his weird behaviour didn't escalate beyond scaring her, it is reasonable to assume that she's not the only girl he has behaved this way toward and maybe he has already gone beyond that with another or will do in the future. He needs to be on their radar and kept away from young girls.

yanbu to want to keep him away from her but yabv naive to believe that he was not perving on her, I remember a few leeches like this when I was young, there is nothing innocent about them. They seem completely normal in front of adults, they're not, don't be deceived.

Another one who rolls eyes at paedo-fear but is seeing big red flags here.

1. He initiated the conversation about periods. In fact it wasn't even relevant to your DD. This completely different from a male teacher/whatever responding to your DD raising the subject.

2. He referred to another girl as underdeveloped, and did so in conversation with your DD.

3. He frequently initiates such conversations about "girly stuff".

4. He keeps doing this despite your DD being uncomfortable with it (which must eventually be obvious).

5. He does so when your DD is alone in the car, after the others have got out.

6. He spends a large part of his working life alone on rural roads with young girls.

No. Just no. At the very least, he shouldn't be doing this job.

solid You're absolutely spot on with your last post. If it was related to anything remotely religious he would be hauled over the coals. (and rightly so)

OP, I really think you should consider at least discussing this with the police. They will be able to make the necessary investigations without dragging his name through the dirt. Maybe he will be happy to show them his computer if he is really that innocent.

And I'd agree with all the people saying discuss this with police.

I agree with everyone here and I think like a couple of others (winnybella, serialkipper)) the reference to her friend as the underdeveloped one would worry me most.

By asking if she has periods and refering to her 'underdeveloped' friend and saying 'I bet she hasn't started her periods yet ..' almost provides an unspoken comparison, i.e. that your DD is developed. At 13 - or any age - I would feel very threatened by an older man I'm trapped in a car with implying I'm sexually maturing and developed. Even if his intentions were completely pure (which I doubt) then the council allowing a child to feel threatened in a situation where they're alone with someone is not acceptable.

So pleased she was able to speak with you about that and that you won't let her get in the cab with him again. I think you need to pursue this for the sake of other children.

Talk to Police.

I never agree with the peadophobes on these boards and think they are all usually hysterical and in need of smelling salts. But this one screams out 'grooming' to me.

I discussed grooming with a policeman friend once (as you do) and he told me that the most chilling thing is that the culprits have such a warped view of reality that they just don't realise how wrong this kind of stuff is. Just like your poor perplexed friendly taxi man. Let the police decide how 'normal' this behaviour really is.

With the police involved I suspect the council will find their hands much less tied than appears to be the case at present.

Looks like everyone is agreed, YANBU! I would also be tempted to discuss the issue with the police. If your rural location is anything like where we live, you probably already know at least one of the officers. This mans behaviour is highly inappropriate to say the least and I would NEVER allow my child in a car with him again.

Personally I would speak to the school. They will be able to speak to the other parents / children to see if anyone else has any issues. They will ( or should) have the kids wellbeing as a high priority.

I would also speak to the police, just in a 'I'm looking for advice' kind if way.

Dave is being totally inappropriate and the fact he can't see that is scary.

No further advice over what has been Said here. YANBU and I am really interested in the council's response when you get back to them

Yanbu and everything serialkipper said. He def needs to be on the polices radar and removed from this role.

If I were you I would also want to know what the girls stuff is your DD refers to.

I'm actually a bit surprised the council didn't contact the police already. My DS2 goes in council provided transport, to school nearly an hour away, (he has SEN). Last year there was a complaint made about the escort in the taxi by another child. The first we even knew of it was when the police telephoned us .
I called the council and explained that I felt we should have been informed immediately by them, and was told that in any child protection issue they are obliged to contact the police straight away. That they couldn't discuss it with the parents until the police had completed their enquiries etc.

The councils attitude in your daughters case does not sound right at all. Even when the police officer came to the house to speak to us / my son he made it quite clear that they always take it seriously.

I'm sorry that your daughter felt so uncomfortable, and to be fair if I was in a taxi and the driver asked about my periods I would be asking him to pull over so I could get out!

"WhoremoaneeGrainger Wed 04-Apr-12 22:24:07

I wouldnt want my DD in a cab with this man. I know that 99.9% of people who are CRB cleared are fine. But there would always be that little bit of worry in my mind."

Sorry, I had to go back to this. 99.9% of people who are CRB cleared haven't been convicted of ay offense. (I'm willing to give a 0.1% error rate for the checks.) That is very different to saying they are fine. They are not. All the CRB does is say they haven't been caught at the time of the check. No-one should rely on a CRB for anything. It is just one tool to screen people. You still have to trust your instincts like the OP is doing.

Good luck with this OP. Your daughter is really lucky to have you in her corner.

OP, if you write to the council you should include the list that kipper wrote in her post at 1.02. Anyone reading that in black and white would have to be insane not to see the potential for disaster that this man represents. I really hope you get them to see sense for the sake of all the young people this man comes into contact with.

I know I'm just repeating what everyone else said but this set off lots of alarm bells for me. The most generous explanation for this man's behaviour is that he has some kind of learning difficulty that prevents him from understanding what is socially appropriate. The more likely explanation is grooming - I can't think of any other reason why a man would make those kinds of remarks to a 13 year old girl.

I don't suppose you can go to the police if a crime hasn't been committed but you are right to speak firmly to the council.

I can easily believe 99.9% of CRB check holders are fine. I'd go further -- I can believe that 99.9% of the population, whether CRB checked or not, are fine. 0.1% of 60 million people is still 60,000 people to be wary of.

99.9% of people wouldn't initiate conversations like these, as they would know such conversations would be inappropriate. The problem is that this driver seems to be part of the other 0.1%!

sweet fucking jesus

I cannot beleive this

YANBU at all

keep fighting, I think the fact that everyone agrees is case in point

we have many of us been at the wrong end of creeps like this

angry!

agree, POLICE

fucking twats your council are, god

As the mum of a year 8 girl, NO WAY would I let her travel in a taxi with him again! As someone else has pointed out, he will be well aware that you (quite rightly) complained about him, and it may mean he is even less trustworthy with your daughter now.

Like someone else suggested, I would really push this issue and kick up such a stink until they remove him from the driving duty.

Due to physical difficulty after an operation I had a taxi to school for several weeks, sometimes on my own other times picking up more children as well. There was one driver who I didn't like he did or said nothing to make me feel this way but there was just something creepy about him which I didn't find with the other drivers. In the end I told my Mum that I would be getting on the school bus again even though it would cause me pain and discomfort.

Your poor DD must have been mortified and very very worried about what he would be talking about next, my account above is not half as bad but it played on my mind so much and even in later years I would be very careful who I was in a car with. You have said she will not be going with him again, and I agree with others that he must never be drive children to school again.

I can't see how much "retraining" would help this situation and am still astonished the whoever you have spoken to at the council would think this was a resolution. Any man incapable of realising the inappropriateness of discussing periods with young passengers that they drive to school is clearly unsuitable for the job. End of.

So, as suggested earlier, you need to take this higher. Contact whoever manages school transport at your local council - not the person who has responsibility for this particular contract. Copy in whoever the chair or lead member of the council's education/transport services is to your email - always involve elected members if getting nowhere with officers. Warn them that if this driver is not taken off the service you will have no choice but to report the situation to the police.