AIBU to not allow my DD in the taxi with this man?

[mickeyvsminnie]

My DD is 13. We live very rurally and the council provide a taxi for her and several other village children due to our distance from the school. I suppose it's the country equivalent of a school bus!

Anyway, she is in year 8 so has been going in the taxi for almost two years now. There is one driver - I shall call him 'Dave,' who does some of the journeys, along with Paul and Marie - the owners of the taxi company [ the council contract out the job ].... Dave does around 50% of the journeys.

My DD has mentioned several times to me in the past that he is a 'bit weird ' and she 'feels uncomfortable ' when in the taxi on her own with him [ this happens sometimes due to other drop off/illness of other kids etc] but I brushed it off until a few weeks ago.

She was off school for a day or two with a stomach bug. She returned to school and was alone in the taxi with Dave on her first day back. He asked her if she was feeling better, she replied ' yes thank you.' He then said ' was it your periods that you were off with? ' and she was obviously mortified. He then went on to talk about my DDs friend , referring to her as the 'under developed ' girl and ' I bet she hasn't started her periods yet .. ' My DD said he often talks about 'girl things' like this.

So, I call the council and tell them that i feel this is highly inappropriate for any man, let alone a taxi driver in his 50s with the job of driving young girls to and from school. They take it seriously, speak to Paul, the owner of the company and Dave is spoken to. 'Yes,' he says, he did indeed speak to DD about her periods but he thought this was entirely normal and he is puzzled as to why it is not appropriate. the council call me to advise they will look into further but they will remove Dave from the runs. I reiterate that I do NOT think he is a padophile - more that he is crass, highly inappropriate and stupid. I then think that this is the end of it.

Anyway, the council call me again today. They wish to reinstate Dave to driving the kids again. He will have 'additional training' and they will ensure that DD is not alone with him [ they cannot ensure this - what happens if a child is ill, for example? ' ]

I am unhappy with this. My DD would not want to be in a taxi with him - far to mortified and uncomfortable.

So- WWYD? AIBU to insist that he is NOT to drive the children to school, that this is a possible warning sign that should be heeded?

TIA!

That's exactly it OP it is a huge red flag plus your DD has told you that he often talks about "girls stuff" so this is a regular thing, not a one of remark that is open to interpretation. How could it be any more obvious. Thank goodness you have reported him, hopefully they will see sense.

kipper - it doesnt really work like that. I have not the time nor inclination to be accompanying my 13 year old to school and their is no bus route here. I would like the council to provide a taxi service with drivers who do not make inappropriate remarks. And this service, incidentally, is not cheap!

ALL councils live in terror of an unannounced Ofsted inspection of their children's services. Just saying.

And you should also ask for a copy of their safeguarding policy and a risk assessment as to allowing this man to continue servicing the contract. Ask for the Director of Children's Services AND the elected councillor whose portfolio is Children's Services (or whatever they call if) to sign it off personally. See what they say.

Then go nuclear anyway.

there not their!

Thanks, SamanthaBrick - I don't really know how the service works but I definitely agree with other mums here that this kind of behaviour from a driver is not on. Maybe it's worth getting Ofsted involved.

Ah a risk assessment! That's a good one.

They are generally a 'good' council... I am surprised that they are considering a reinstatement. The taxi company's logistical headache is surely worth nothing compared to what could potentially happen - and here they have a nice, easy warning.

kipper - yes, I'm liking the Ofsted thing. I don't want to roll over and just go ' oh OK! Great! he has had the training and yes, of course my DD will be happy to go in a taxi with him ... '

Yes, rhinestone has given fab advice here. This is definitely the way forward.

Glad you are not going to accept this. Your poor DD, how utterly cringemaking for her.
THing is, normal, healthy, nice men would rather die than have to mention menstruation to a teenage girl. Even if it was their own DD they would be scrambling around like mad to find a woman to handle the conversation.

Sorry but agree with a comment earlier in the thread.. no 'normal' (sorry for use of the word, but it's late and I've had some ) man in his 50s would seek out a conversation about periods with any female, much less a teen.

SGB - Exactly. Like I said, her own father would not talk about it with her - purely out of respect for her...you know what it's like at 13 - you do not wish to discuss periods with anyone but your peers maybe and mother. Last time i checked, being forced to say ' no, I wasn't off school with period pain ' to some taxi driver was not something that teenagers liked to say

cake - no need to apologise. No normal man in his 50s WOULD discuss periods with young girls.

You know what, asking about her periods is bad enough, but then perhaps one could say 'oh, maybe he has a daughter her age and is just trying to be friendly' (even if extremely unlikely reason for his behaviour imo).

But the reference to her 'undeveloped' friend puts it straight into sexual predators area for me. Why make a remark about a lack of physical signs of sexual maturity of a very young girl?

I don't think it can be put down to being just crass or stupid. I really don't. And I'm usually eye rolling about the paedo hysteria/man without kids in a park/male nursery workers etc etc.

I would be very concerned.

winny - I am unsure about the 'under developed 'comment, as in EXACTLY what was said - he made a reference to where this girl was and my DD said she was now going to another school and then he made a comment about her being the ' under developed one. '

I can't work out if that is worse than the period conversations.

And can you even imagine any of the men you know and trust to say something about the presence or lack thereof of breasts in a 13yo? To another 13yo?

Nope. It just wouldn't happen.

Hmmm

I shall battle the council

x-post

Right, but what man would use that to describe a young girl (especially to another young teen?). Wouldn't it be more usual to say "the girl with glasses/long hair/whatever)? Do you see what I mean?

SEN kids don't make good witnesses for the courts and CPS, sadly the lowest type of predator KNOW this. Also a CRB can just mean a predator is too smart to have been caught yet; not that an individual is 100% safe in all circumstances.

Please trust your gut instinct. If you have to quit work and take your child to school yourself do it. You are a brilliant Mum for listening to your child, taking her feelings seriously and trying to resolve it for her.

I did discuss intimate feminine stuff with my late father, we had that high level of trust, intimacy and openess, even through the worst of my adolescent angst. I still tell my Mum stuff the most private things I'd never share with another living soul. My own child is the same with me. A parent however is an utterly different relationship to that of a taxi-driver or even a teacher.

I'm totally unconvinced that sitting listening to a council "training course" for an afternoon, can suddenly impart decency into a grown man of 50 who doesn't already possess it and frankly this man's comments were indecent. At worst it could potentially teach a predator how to be more subtle in his grooming attempts, so as to pass undetected in future.

This guy was definately testing the boundaries of common decency. (I also found the comment about the friend being "undeveloped" very disturbing.) Both you and more importantly your child are being failed now by the council.

Oh I completely see what you mean. The whole thing makes me very , hence I took immediate action to protect her from anymore of this crap- once i was made aware of it.

Oh, yes, I wasn't implying in the slightest that you weren't acting promptly. I hope you get somewhere with the council.

boc - my DD doesn't have any SEN... that is a very good point though re the training course.

I'm all ears to what this 'training' comprises of, have to say

winny - here's hoping! Does disturb me a lot that they would just be happy to sweep all this under the carpet - testing out the waters with me first.

yy, it's quite odd, really, but then not everyone is aware of the patterns of grooming/getting off on talking about things like that etc.

I think threatening with press/police as a last resort is not a bad idea if you'll feel they aren't concerned. Staying firm, calm and asking pertinent questions (as per kitchentiles post) will hopefully work.

Vinny

The information below is taken from a SEN site but the principle is true for all school transport:

R vs Hereford and Worcester County Council, ex parte P (1992)
?it is implicit in section 55(1) of the Education Act 1944 that the LEA is under a duty to make such arrangements as it considers necessary for a child to reach school without undue stress, strain or difficulty such as would prevent him from benefiting from the education the school has to offer ... it follows that where a child with special educational needs requires transport to get him to school the transport which the LEA proposes to make available must therefore be non-stressful transport ? ?

So you may want to quote that particular piece of law to your Coucil stating that it would cause your DD stress, strain and difficulty to be forced to be transported to school by this driver.

Sorry - it's late and I was so shocked at his comments I didn't take in the "rural" aspect of your OP straight away. My own kid is ASD and so that's my usual mumsnet "world" iykwim.

The rest of my comments still stand. Most blokes would, as another poster so rightly pointed out run a mile rather than discuss menstruation with anyone other than maybe their OWN daughter. It's just NOT normal behavior for a rational, mentally healthy adult male, so I don't buy the "socially inept" line at all.

Call me an old cynic but it's my belief that - just as you can't legislate for common sense, you can't "teach" common decency to grown-arsed men. How do they define and measure the learning outcomes for such a course to be effective?

The comments from those posters who were approached inappropriately as children also concerned me. They err on the side of caution too as regards this man OP.