to think it isn't a big deal if children in reception can't use a knife and fork

[Whoneedssleepanyway]

my friend gets a real bee in his bonnet about so called middle class neglect and parents "outsourcing" all their parenting to teachers, nannies, nursery etc.

this week his gripe was that children go to school without knowing how to use a knife and fork and his aunt who was a headmistress at a primary school said to him that without fail every year there were a number of children in reception who couldn't use anything other than a spoon to eat.

AIBU to think this really isn't a big deal, my DD1 is just 5 and is still getting to grips with a knife, I tend to still cut a lot of her food up for her, I do lay her a knife and fork at mealtimes but she tends to use the fork a bit like a spoon. I haven't particularly pushed the need to hold her knife and fork properly on the basis that she will get there eventually...she can use a knife to spread things like butter on bread, the fact she isn't using both her knife and fork competently yet really isn't something I lose sleep over.

There's a difference between learning to use them (like your child) and not being able to use them at all.

Some reception kids start school literally still having all their food cut up so they can eat with their fingers.

They should know how To use a knife and fork!! Or at least the basics.

YUNBU Let kids be kids. So what if they can't use a knife and fork by the time they go to school. There are worse things in life...

Hmm.. I think children should be able to use cutlery before school where possible. How are they going to cut up their dinner otherwise?

Some kids are so tiny when they start school that it's understandable if they can't, but a NT 5yo should be able to use a knife and fork I think

I think there's a difference between learning to use one but hasn't got the hang of it yet and totally unable to use anything but a spoon.

It's not a big deal if you're still getting to grips with it, but that's not the same as has to use a spoon, I think.

I'm not sure many 5 yr olds are great with a knife and fork, mine certainly weren't, particularly my eldest - he has erbs palsy and was unable to use a knife and fork for years - but I think it's not unreasonable to expect that they're getting there.

That said, the world isn't going to end if they can't and I think there are other skills that are more important.

e.g. Mine can't tie shoelaces at 11 & 12. My eldest, again, because of the erbs, but with my youngest it's because I have been completely unable to find a way to teach him THAT'S a massive failure on my part and quite a big deal, I think. I show him and I show him and I show him and he just can't do it.

I'm quite sure there are many people who have serious blood flow problems because their judgypants are hoiked so high and pulled so tight

packed lunch?

I can remember my brother ribbing me before I started school because I couldn't use my knife and fork properly (I've got a long memory ).

I wasn't 'outsourced' to anyone, my mum had tried, so it must just have been me being really little.

I've mastered the art now though

Kayano - can I ask, do you think at 4 they should be able to hold them both in the proper grip and cut all their food up? I actually think it is hard, especially as cutlery is still quite big for little hands, I have small cutlery at home for my DDs to use but it means the knife tends to be rubbish and not good at cutting meat or anything like that up?

I wouldn't lose sleep. But I think should be able to use cutlery (even if not perfectly). I have worked in schools where kids don't even know how to pick up a fork. I don't get it myself. Ds can feed himself with a spoon and his is 13 months, dd was the same. So how they don't know how to even pick it up, I don't get.

My 11 YO can only just do shoelaces up Hecate, but that's because she's hardly had any shoes that have them on.

They're all velcro and slip ons.

Same as lighting matches, she doesn't have a clue, (probably a good thing) but you just don't come across them much nowadays

children are getting babied for so much longer. 30 years ago you used a knife and fork in reception.

I don't think we're talking about perfect use, but being fairly competent at using cutlery rather than fingers. I mean, most 2 year olds should be able to use a fork rather than their fingers!

yanbu :)

DPrince - you see with that I would say it isn't that they can't pick the fork up but they have no idea what a fork is as they have never even seen one at home....the same friend said that there are children who start school who don't know how to open a book because they don't know what one is.

My children started full time nursery in the same classroom as reception at 3. They were in (state) school for nearly two years before they became 5.

As DD was in school, either in the classroom or in the after school club from 7.30 am to 6.00 pm, so ate all 3 meals in school 5 days a week, I do think that a lot of helping her learn how to use a knife and fork is down to the school.

Otherwise what do the staff do? Have children for most of their waking hours but not actually help them with anything, just stand around judging how poorly the children are developing and blaming the parents?

My daughter was only 4.2 when she begun reception and she still cannot cut up her own food easily and uses the fork to scoop it into her mouth. She's now 4.8. I show her how to at meals but I know she'll get there in her own time, and she has school meals everyday and has done since last September. So I agree with you YANBU.

They do toddler cutlery so yes at 4 they should be able to hold a
Knife and fork.

Maybe not be great at using them but the basics should be taught by the parents. Loads don't even try then wonder why their older kids eat with their hands

I think use of cutlery has to be taught, I don't think many children will automatically know how to do it properly without being shown. If you cut food up for them they won't bother to do it for themselves, why should they? If you don't ask them to use their knife and fork together they will eat as they wish because you don't say anything to the contrary.

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't seem that important, but I have seen a nine year old clueless about using cutlery appropriately, because most of the foods he ate were by hand (packed lunches, burgers in buns, pizza etc) and he wasn't taught by his parents, so he got no practice.

I agree with your friend.

Is using a knife and fork really that challenging for the NT child? Really?

Should we never push any skills 'cos they're only kids'?

Agree that there is a difference between learning to use a knife and fork, and never being given the opportunity and always eat everything with a spoon (or just pick up all their food and eat it that way). Huge difference!

Smug, my one year old can use a grown up fork this morning she used it to comb her own hair, what a genius.

And I don't believe that there are children who don't know what a book is. Even if you grow up in a house with no books, characters on kids' tv read books, listen to stories being told from books etc.

hmm..

I remember the shame of the headmistress teaching me to hold my cutlery correctly at Junior school - as my mother hadn't taught me. I was mortified. So now I am a bit particular about the kids using a knife and fork correctly. (and v surprised how many adults have really bad table manners!)

so - at 5 years old - I reckon they may struggle, but should be in the process of learning which you DD is doing.

Isn't it becoming more of a common thing nowadays, due to families eating separately and in front of tellybox etc? And more finger food - pizzas and burgers?

Oh -and from the Jamie Oliver in America thing - the kids don't get a knife with school dinners as it isn't safe for them?

sorry - will go and adjust my judgypants now.

children are getting babied for so much longer. 30 years ago you used a knife and fork in reception

I agree. When I think back to when I started school 39yrs ago most kids could use a knife and fork, tie their laces and tie a normal school tie.