to be so utterly shocked by what I have discovered by looking through my ELEVEN year old's phone...

[Cathycomehome]

and to feel like a terrible parent, and to not even recognize the child that wrote these messages?

Even if it was FB, they'd just open another account anyway.

Anyhoo - I must stop fretting about this now, and go to bed. Thanks for all replies, I'll have to have a think about what to say to him tomorrow. All advice appreciated.

If normal means frequent or common then it is, especially when egged on. Just keep talking and remember that non of it changes anything you knew about him. You were naive if you expected him not to use the language of his peers. Nothing you have posted is at all shocking, a consequence of media, peers etc.

Have seen much much worse, often by the girls too. It really isn't untypical.

LOL at all the people here with their heads in the sand saying the DS and his friends don't really know what it is they are looking at or saying, and that it's only hormones.

I agree with those who say the phone needs to be viewed as a privilege to be awarded by the parent and taken away, and that this situation can and must be turned around. He needs a lot of guidance and strictness and absolutely needs to know he is accountable to the person who provides the phone for the way it is used.

Calling a girl a slut is despicable even for an 11 yo. I would be very inclined to talk with the school about the atmosphere there if the children are talking in this way to and about each other. I don't think it could possible be anything but a nasty environment for girls to be spending their days in, or for boys who don't want to get involved in this sort of scummy behaviour either. The school has a responsibility to create a positive culture within its walls and if children are engaging in this sort of banter among each other then the school needs to know and needs to come up with a plan to correct it. The school should be finding out how these children are getting access to porn and they should be interested in whether it is being shown around in school.

I also think a child of 11 has no business on FB and should be reported.

I had a lot of cringemaking chats with DS in the car (so no chance of escape) on the subject of homophobia, calling people or things gay, judging people (especially girls) based on appearance, etc. It is too easy to just say boys will be boys and let them get away with this crass and offensive speech and behaviour. I feel I owe it to him to counteract the messages he gets from his environment, and also to his future partner, any children he may have, any future colleagues, make or female. I don't think a parent should stand back and let a child sink or swim in the dreck that surrounds him. You have to point out what is right and what is wrong. It is not always obvious to 11 year olds.

'Remark from other kid regarding my current pregnancy. Followed by "Bet your mum and dad watched loads of porn before your mum got pregnant. Bet you do too". "Yeah yeah LOL and my baby brother and the little shit isn't even born yet".

THIS. This is the worst, by the way. But pretty bad, no?'

I think you are right that there is something really bad there, some coldness or callousness, a lack of tenderness and warmth towards the baby who will be joining the family. If he is trying to impress the friend, then I would be afraid that he would go way too far in other areas too, just for approval.

How much spare time does your DS have? How bound to the family do you feel he is through mutual responsibility, chores he has to do, activities you share together -- in other words how many opportunities do you have or could you create for you to transmit your values to him?

I think you really need to get his dad to play a role in the lecturing and whatever other course of action you decide to take. The DS needs to hear from an adult man what is and isn't ok for a boy to be saying and doing.

I think sitting and reading it out to him was an excellent way to tackle this, and now you need to follow up with drawing him closer to the family, giving him family responsibilities, regular chores and someone to be accountable to about them, and think of positive things to do with his dad that they might both enjoy.

I truly think you are over-reacting. Why on EARTH would you read the texts out to embarrass him? I am a million years old but we were all obsessed with sex at his age, surely? In my day it was reading out the 'rude' bits in our mums' novels

I don't think you are overreacting and applaud you for your stance.

Just because it's common, doesn't mean it's ok.

I don't think you have overeacted, despite the fact that this sort of stuff does start happening from around the eleven mark. If I were you I would be talking to him, calmly and with very logical and rational reasons as to why this sort of behaviour is understandable as he is testing boundaries but that you need to make it very clear that you do define where the boundaries are.
I remember having a similar sort of discussion with my mum at the age of twelve or thirteen but she was so clearly uncomfortable about having to have it, that it put me off ever trying to talk to her again.
Which is not what you want to do, encouraging him to find you and your husband/partner approachable, will only be a good thing for all of you.
I'm going into waffle mode slightly now, but the thing about the way my mother handled it put a whole layer of shame around it all and left me feeling that if she could not handle it, then I was best not to burden her with talking about this sort of thing, which of course meant I was trying to figure 'relationships' out on my own with only my peer group and the likes of Just Seventeen to give me an idea of where the norms lay.

All that conversation on the phone is not even really about sex though -- it is not about boobs or bottoms or nipples, bras or knickers or thongs.

In all that the OP reported there is a strong whiff of male privilege. It is expressed in the 'slut' remark and the use of porn, underlying which is the attitude that men or boys are consumers or connoisseurs of girls and women, that they are superior and entitled to label and use others, look down their noses at others, and that all that matters about others is whether they provide gratification for males. Somewhere in the community, some young people are growing up in homes where women are despised and they have spread this cancer.

That is why this has to be dealt with sternly.

I don't really know what to think about how to go forward now. It all seems so unlike him, he's usually a really nice kid, honestly!
Really need to get some more sleep, I will look again a bit later.

janedoe Can completely understand your wish to keep your DC from undesirable influences. Moving to a rural area will not, of itself, help. See this www.mentorfoundation.org/uploads/UK_Rural_Case_Study.pdf Some rural areas in the north of Scotland have very serious problems with drugs, the internet is all pervasive and rural children expect to have mobiles as much as their urban counterparts.

Totally agree math. My children don't have phones and ds (12) mostly talks to people on his xbox, which is in our living room and monitored. We've called him on a few things, mostly when we think he's been excessively nasty to someone (obviously there is lots of banter). He knows that if his language steps over the line then his xbox privileges will be gone. He has also reported a couple of 'friends' and defriended others, and he did need some support for the fall out.

dd is 11 and has already had some online issues (she moved from a gmail to a hotmail account and we didn't realise it had a social feature) with kids (mostly girls) really piling in on top of each other. I went through her account with her and she deleted all the girls who had said nasty things or allowed them on their pages. Plus we reported to school as there was undoubtedly some bullying going on. dd seemed to appreciate being able to talk about it and to take some control.

Eleven year olds still need a lot of guidance in navigating the online world, and as parents that's part of our job. dd was getting quite distressed about the stuff going on but didn't have the tools to handle it. It seemed to really help that we came down very heavily, and I know several other parents have done the same as well as school. I think that children need to know that some things are really unacceptable. For me that very much includes bullying, homophobia and sexism, and I think that reading comments aloud is a good way to make them real.

Cathy, don't worry too much, I'm sure he is a really nice kid, he's just got carried away with his mates and needs guidance. I think that this sort of thing is just so much nastier when it's written down that it gives you a terrible jolt.

Obviously talking to him about attitudes to porn or calling a girl a slut, etc has to be done.

But tbh I am a bit aghast at lots of the comments on here. An 11 year old boy doesn't understand what he is saying when he talks about wanking and is only saying it to fit in?? I would be surprised if an 11 year old boy wasn't wanking and talking about it. This happens before the big puberty changes happen.

Talking about sex with his peers is totally totally normal imo at this age. As is wanking and even beginning to experiment with peers. And this would happen whether he lived in city or country.

My ds is y6 and 11.

A lot of the banter sounds similar to his mates. At 11 they definitely know what wanking is as primary school sex ed covers masturbation and they pick up slang like wanking from socialising with older kids when they go out. A lot of talk about porn may be bravado but I know that lots of his friends have easy access to mags like Nuts and The Sun and their parents don't bother with content filters on computers.
The comment I'd be most angry about is him calling the baby a shit. Totally unacceptable not to stick up for family.
I considered taking ds phone off him but he will simply delete messages or say them at school so pretty pointless. I've tried to tell him not to waste money on texts- he has loads that are one word answers like "no" . They have discussed cyber bullying at school and I hope that he doesn't use his phone to be nasty and bully.
Final point- we live pretty rurally too and the y6 boys here are similar to the ones in the London suburbs where we used to live.

Nooka that's a really thoughtful post. OP this is a good thing to happen, you can teach your son about appropriate online/text language. I monitor the DCs Facebook and also tell them I may read their texts (they are 12 and 14) and they can read mine . This will help prevent cyber bullying and ensure that nothing is written online that could harm them in future. Our school has had a huge problem with sexting recently - boys encouraging girls to send topless pics then forwarding to their mates basically ruined one girls life ( top independent school btw)

I don't think you over reacted, I would have done the same, 11 is still very young.

I have two 11 year old DDs in year 6 and some of their friends have had problems with boys in their class telling them that 'they wank when thinking about them in bed' and asking them if they touch their vaginas etc etc.

Not nice at all for these girls to be harassed like that at school FFS. School has punished the boys but not told their parents, i would certainly want to know if they were mine so i could make it clear that it is unacceptable to talk to girls like that.

I don't think you are over reacting at all. Agree with everything maths said really.

The tone of the texts is very callas and shows a massive disrespect for women and you and your baby. I would be looking at who he is hanging about with.
They sound like they are egging him on. Where is he getting access to porn at 11?

I can't help thinking if someone had written that about dss mother on a text to him he would have told them where to go. I would watch his peer group very carefully. They sound like they have zero respect for girls.

I don't think you are over reacting. I have 2 teenagers and since they started secondary school have had ongoing spot checks on phones. My DS 13 is generally very good, he uses bbm to communicate with his friends but doesn't swear or refer to girls sexually, maybe because he knows I'll read it!
14 yo dd another story! She is not allowed FB due to inappropriate pictures, sexual messages from boys to her and vice versa. However this has been an ongoing battle, she run away for a few hours the last time we caught her on FB (fairly recently) and she has a basic phone with no Internet access which she takes to school and then turns it off when she gets home as their was also inappropriate text messages.

It sounds as though you are on top of things with your DS op, that's good.
It's a bit of a nightmare raising teenagers now, there's so much technology and they are all in such a hurry to grow up

Good luck, I hope your DS takes on board what you said

"Totally unacceptable not to stick up for family."

WHAT @ this. First of all the kid didn't even say anything about the baby, secondly I hate this notion of having to "stick up for" your family. All the nastiest, cheekiest kids I ever knew were ones who had to start a fight over the smallest thing because it somehow "dissed their muvver".

By the way at OP...he absolutely knows what he's talking about. I can confirm that much younger do "that kind of thing", even females. Not that you want to hear that, just don't be naive about it.

Unfortunately there is a big difference in the way children behave at home and out of the house. It's a source of a lot of friction with secondary schools, when parents refuse to believe that their child has done X and backs them against the school- it utterly undermines school discipline. In an ideal world they wouldn't behave differently at home and outside home, but in practise they practically all do.

I'm imagining that this is your eldest child? Sorry, but you are in for more of this as he hits teenage. Time I think for some quiet chats about suitable behaviour, porn and how he presents himself online though. You've been catapulted into it but this time would probably have come soon anyway.

I think you did wrong reading the text to him he will never trust you and may become very secretive
My boys are 14 and 15 and i would never ever look at their phone its called trust, at 11 its all talk (hopefully) they have come from being the eldest children in their school (primary) to being the youngest and my boys are june and aug born.
Boys like to fit in and find themselves and even if the phone has now been taken off him you cannot erase what has happened and turn him back to a innocence 11 yr old

OP, the key bit for me was when you said he was in year 7. For my DD, moving to secondary school was a huge shock - one moment you're mixing with a nice set of kids in primary school, the next you're in a class full of kids who are, shall we say, not quite so well brought up. The amount of sexual language and aggression the boys in her year would come out with was unbelievable (and largely ignored by teachers). Unfortunately, your DS is probably coming under the influence of some not very nice characters and it's very hard to do anything about it. Peer pressure trumps parental pressure most of the time.