To think the long school holidays are not for the teachers' benefit?

[NotInMyDay]

Discussion on BBC Breakfast this morning re long school holidays. A rep from teachers' union was saying the long school holidays were vital for teachers to rest and recuperate so that they could do the best for our children at the start of the next school year.

AIBU to think that it's the children who need this break and therefore the teachers have it too? Rather than NEEDED by the teachers.

I think that most teachers do a fantastic and unenviable job but they don't need to recuperate any more than GPs, surgeons, nurses, bus drivers etc.

stinking results, MrBunny?

Stonking haa haa sorry, it's my iPad's autocorrections!

I thought as much :)

I have stopped teaching because I wanted a life!
The only way that a teacher can manage to get to work at 7.30am-work through to about 5pm, go home cook a meal and work all evening and work one day of the weekend is because they have good holidays. If you bear in mind that some of the holiday is spent doing school work then I simply think that you would find it difficult to recruit and keep teachers.
Do you really want exhausted people teaching your DCs?

I would absolutely love to see OP teaching for a week -she might change her mind.
Every hour in the classroom needs an hour outside for marking and preparation and record keeping-you certainly don't have time in the classroom-it is 'hands on' in primary. There are not enough hours in the day-especially when you add report writing, staff meetings, school plays, organising trips etc etc etc.

The long holidays were not for the harvest-they would have needed to be off until October! The long holidays were for the rich at public school who went off somewhere for July and August.

Sorry, haven't had time to read the whole thread by this comment by a jumped-up wife of something or other on about age 3 made me laugh:

"dealing with teenagers? easy compared to some clients"

What a joke. Do his clients swear at him? Assault him? Assault children? Throw things? Refuse to communicate? Wet themselves? Need him to liaise between abusive parents and social services? Etc. etc.

"dealing with teenagers? easy compared to some clients"

That made me laugh as well. I work with offenders and Class A drug users now. I was treated far worse, with no worthwhile sanctions available by the secondary school pupils I dealt with day in day out.I've never been sworn at or assaulted by anyone from my current client group - I put up with it regularly while teaching. I get 32 days holiday plus BH now, have forgotten what a lunch break feels like, and am on the go all day, often dealing with chaotic clients in crisis. Never, however, do I feel the tiredness I felt while teaching.

And even though my work is heavily monitored and payment by results and contract insecurity is the norm, I don't have to live with the constant threat of capability procedures from nowhere that many teachers are living with now particularly if they are older, expensive, and their HT decides they want shut of them.

I also have to do some work at home, but nothing like the amount I used to have to do after several hours of performing to a reluctant, truculent audience.

I got out for half the pay and fewer holidays (which I have some control over now) and I think that if the holidays were altered teachers would drop out at even greater rates than they do now.

Unless you work at a behaviour unit or a very very tough school a teacher doesn't get routinely shouted at, assaulted etc. Our students do not wet themselves, throw things or refuse to communicate.

I worked in a very tough school with poor leadership. Defiance was daily/commonplace and assault not at all uncommon. There are still schools where any refusal of pupils to comply with behavioural expectations rapidly becomes the teachers' fault.

And working in an environment where you have to battle with defiance daily is tiring.

I know schools like that exist, I have worked in them but that is not the norm for most teachers.

Not routinely, no, & most of the 200+ teenagers I teach over the course of a week are lovely.

I reckon to get properly shouted at twice a year or so (three times this year so far, but I've pulled some difficult classes this year).

I've been assaulted five times in a 13 year teaching career, of which two were 'serious' (one chair over the head whilst attempting to detain a pupil for detention & one punch to the cheekbone whilst breaking up a fight).

The other three were: sharp shove from behind on a flight of stairs, pen stab to hand & bag swung in face.

It's not exactly front line armed forces (& it's the least of my worries day to day!), but when some kid does decide to kick off, you need to be aware that your reaction will either defuse or accelerate the situation, so it is routine in that it's a risk, for yourself & for the kid who ends up getting excluded, that you have to be constantly aware of as a possibility.

I teach in a v nice & over-subscribed school & I love my job, & I am pretty successful at it.

I got out for half the pay and fewer holidays (which I have some control over now) and I think that if the holidays were altered teachers would drop out at even greater rates than they do now.

I have never worked in tough schools and I have never been assaulted but it is stressful in any school and the workload is huge.
I loved the classroom and the children-it was all the rest that made me get out. I am sure that much more will go if the holidays went.
It is no longer a job for life, teachers have degrees and can do other things. Some will teach early and change and others will come late. It will be much rarer to start from university and work through to retirement.

Do all teachers work 7-5 and then all evening and one day at the weekend?

I think not.

I know several teachers that play golf and football evenings and weekends.
One helps in a youth club two evenings a week.

I see them in the pub and local eatery.

They all work in an ''outstanding'' school which my son goes to and everyone seems very happy.

Sometimes some people can just organise their time better.

For instance I can clean the kitchen after our evening meal and be sat down within 20 mins. My oh on the other hand is still pouncing around in their after I have been out for a walk for an hour with the dog.

The ones that I know do-and they are all very good teachers. For an hour in the classroom you need to prepare for the lesson, if you are primary you need to get all the equipment sorted, and you need to mark. Possibly secondary don't need to work those hours. To be a 'good' teacher I needed to- and that is why I have stopped.

Sometimes it's not a matter of organising your time better but simply having less work to do. In a recently judged outstanding school there will be less pressure and scrutiny of teachers than in a special measures school facing imminent ofsted, for example. I'm having to work far longer in the evenings this year than last year because I'm teaching new A2 modules that need extra preparation.

Don't assume people are lying or badly organised if they say they are working longer hours than teachers that you know. They could, of course, also be more dedicated than the teachers you know.

It also depends on the Head as to whether they try and lighten the load -or pile it on!

And your head of department! Luckily my HOD is very hands off and lets us all just get on with it. Other departments in my school aren't so lucky and have to put up with regular book scrutiny and quizzing about schemes of work and demands to create new resources and initiatives. Those departments, incidentally, have a much higher turnover of teachers than mine.

You think the teachers who work less are better iam? Weird viewpoint. Could it be that the teachers who put more effort in are actually more dedicated and successful at teaching the less able children? Generally outstanding schools have low levels of children with EAL, and that lessens the workload a lot, believe me. I know plenty of "outstanding" teachers who just spin off the same old tripe year after year, whereas I would rather do something new and interesting for my children, especially if I feel something different would suit that particular class better.

Exactly CailinDana-I dare say it is easier if you just churn out the same each year.

But they all think they know,belgianbun because they see it and they have been to school themselves. If the teacher is successful they will make it seem easy and you will have no idea how long they spent researching and preparing.

Then of course you get that it is your own fault and you shouldn't take long!

Hooray, slash the holidays!

My last salary was £32,000. If you slash the holidays (for which teachers do not, in fact, get paid) then it would leap up to about £50,000! WIN!

The long holidays are for the benefit of the 1940s farmers, entitled bastards. SO no, not relevant or necessary any more. Personally, I would rather have a shorter summer break, as kids lose so much learning across the summer. I'd rather do 8 week terms with two week breaks, possibly a 3 week one in the summer. That would also help working parents who struggle with childcare across the summer.

I can't believe that everyone is still stuck on how hard they work or don't work. What about some actual suggestions for how the education structure could work better? There seem to be loads of teachers on here - so how about you tell us if you think terms could be organised better, hours could be better - for both you, the children you teach and the parents who look after them the rest of the time (and who most of you are too). I quite like CrunchFrog's suggestion of 8 week terms, with 2 weeks breaks & a slightly longer one in the summer. What do others think?

As a working mum, the long holidays are a living nightmare for me. I'm also not convinced that a 6+ week break is great for the kids either. Every autumn it seems to take ages for the kids (& I mean that generally, not specifically mine) to settle back into being back at school. I wonder if there is an optimum time for kids to have a break - before it is a big effort to go back again?