To think the long school holidays are not for the teachers' benefit?

[NotInMyDay]

Discussion on BBC Breakfast this morning re long school holidays. A rep from teachers' union was saying the long school holidays were vital for teachers to rest and recuperate so that they could do the best for our children at the start of the next school year.

AIBU to think that it's the children who need this break and therefore the teachers have it too? Rather than NEEDED by the teachers.

I think that most teachers do a fantastic and unenviable job but they don't need to recuperate any more than GPs, surgeons, nurses, bus drivers etc.

I would say that it's fairly common for people in professional jobs to have to often work at home or at work in the evenings or at the weekends...appreciate that teachers work hard, but don't think they have a monopoly on stressful jobs.

I feel that we're hitting the wrong target if we complain about this, however; shouldn't we be lobbying for a few more holidays (say 30 days rather than the more usual 20/25) for everyone else? Our working hours are high and increasing year on year, and are supposed to be the longest in Europe; but holidays have stayed the same...

If you're a good teacher you really care about your students. As a primary teacher that means caring about 30 different children all at one time, trying to keep track of their English, maths, and science, while ensuring that they're doing ok socially and emotionally. Think of the way that you worry about your children's schooling, and then imagine that you actually have to deliver that schooling, not just to your child but to 29 others too. Day 1 it's like someone presses "go" and there's no stopping until the holidays come around. I'm a SAHM now but just thinking about it is bringing back the stress.

The thing is - I don't know why it bugs everyone so much. The fact teachers have long holidays is reflected in their pay (i.e it is apportioned more). Also, if anyone thinks that the holidays make the job so amazing - well retrain and do it then.

My parents were teachers and used to get so defensive about it all. My DH is also a teacher and his attitude is very much "yes, the holidays are great - certainly a perk of the job." On the other hand, as a spouse of a teacher, I have found it v annoying constantly being tied to school holidays (kind of irrelevant now that we have school age kids though), and I know for a fact that whilst we are on the same full time salary, my DH has to work twice as hard. Personally - I wouldn't swap!

The unions rarely seem to do teachers any favours - totally agree that his point should have been that kids need the rest, hence teachers get the out of school time too.

I've had other jobs besides teaching, ones that were supposedly stressful, with long hours, and I still found them not even half as tiring as teaching. I think only nurses and hospital doctors would have a similarly stressful job in the sense that you never get just sit down and collect your thoughts, from 8 in the morning it's just constant, constant constant, go go go.

puppyhead laughing at the idea that a journalist's job in any way at all compares to that of the responsibilities expected of teachers.

Oh and please ditch the cliche of "welcome to the real world" : 1. we're in it, teachers, too. 2. You're a journalist and should avoid cliches like the plague.

Many jobs are stressful and driven. Teachers don't have a monopoly on that.
The difference, ime is that with teaching (especially primary) you rarely get a moment when you're 'off'.
When you are faced with 30 children solidly every day youu do not get a mimute to yourself apart from playtime (unless you're on duty!) and that is hugely tiring. Many mumsnetters know what it's like to just have your own family 'in your face' all day. At least at home you can plonk them in front of the TV for half an hour.
Add to that the planning, preparation, marking and assessment which is usually done before school and into your evening and it can be quite exhausting.
That's another reason why the change in retirement ages for everyone no matter what their profession is very poorly thought out. Teaching is just one (medicine must be another) where you shouldn't go on till your mid-sixties.

The kids I teach are always bloody knackered by the holidays and so am I

They really do need holidays, although I would have to agree they don't actually NEED six weeks, but it seems sensible for them to have the bulk of their holidays at a time when the weather should be at its best. What with rising childhood obesity, it makes sense to have the long holiday in the summer to give kids the best chance of getting outside and getting some fresh air and exercise!

Anyway, to everyone who grudges the kids and teachers the six week summer holidays, can you honestly not remember how much you LOVED the 6 week holidays. Seriously, I have the fondest memories of the times I spent with friends and family during the summer holidays and it would be a bloody shame for today's children to miss out on that due to jealousy!

Oh and to the many people who, after two weeks in the summer, post of Facebook that they have had enough of their kids in their face and need a break - let that be reason enough for teachers to say that they need holidays!

I always think it's funny when MNers say "Oh yes, having two children is hard, it's so full on" and yet they claim that not just looking after, but teaching, thirty children, all from different backgrounds and levels of ability, creates a normal level of stress. It's mad and illogical.

And while I'm here, I've never heard any teacher claim the job as having the monopoly on stress. I've heard it said about them, never by them.

PuppyMonkey actually.

lurcher this is what really boils my piss. Teachers work hard no one seriously doubts that, but they seem to think they have a monopoly on hard work and unpaid overtime/out of hours working. A nine hour day isn't unusual or excessive.

Especially as teachers are more than compensated with with generous breaks and a colossal holiday entitlement.

The whole 'teachers are uniquely hard done to' attitude is what gets my back up, my parents were both teachers and they were just as bad.

You do sound moany to be brutally honest. We know teaching is hard work abd demanding but it's not got the monopoly on stressful and demanding and the unions don't help their members cause by making such silly statements!

Dh works 8-5 most days, some are 7-5 he comes home put the kids to bed/tea with me then usually does at least another 1-2 hours a night, sometimes more. He has to do a few hours over the weekend too. His leave has been cancelled on the last three occasions so no family time there for us and no break for him. He'd love a six week break but is allowed two at the most and that's when he can get it! he also has to work away from home some weeks, most weeks he's away 1-2 nights or at other locations around the UK.

Sorry, PuppyMonkey.

I see my son for an hour a day and I relish the time that I have off in the holidays so that I can spend some time with him. On the other hand, I do love my job as a teacher.

The 6 week holiday is glorious, and I very much enjoy that it is part of my job. What I don't enjoy is the fact that I have to nod and smile and apologise to people who think they have a right to tell me I don't deserve it. It's not like it's a new thing. Everyone knows it's part of the deal, right? My DH is a management consultant which means he gets paid an annual bonus. I don't. No point moaning about it though- it's one if the things that goes with his job.

Two weeks off now, and I'm wondering how I'm going to fit everything in. I'll be paying for my DTDs to go to holiday club for 4 days so that I can get school work done. Not moaning- it's just the way it goes.

People who moan about teachers piss me off- 6 weeks holiday is not unfair, or "lucky" - training as a teacher was a conscious decision- long term time hours, frustrating teenagers AND long holidays were always part of the deal.

Compos our holiday entitlement is actually 4 weeks, that is all the leave you accrue on maternity leave if you take the full 12 months, and it has to be taken during school holidays!

And I work very hard thanks. For not much pay.

EvilTwins: I don't think OP was intending to bash teachers; it was aimed at the union rep who had worded things very, very badly in an interview this morning. But I suppose that's what live TV does to people sometimes.

The point that teachers are not uniquely hardworking is so obvious that I am surprised it still generates so many posts.

Eaxctly Edith. It's not the holidays that get on my pip. Quite the opposite. Good for you I say!

It's the bleating, self-justification, defencivness and patronising comments that get on my last one

I didn't see the original interview, but cannot comment on that - but I think teachers and students both need the holidays.

I know this type if thread always descends into the cliches of 'teachers always whinge' 'other jobs are stressful too', 'other people don't understand what it's like to teach', 'if you think it's do easy why don't you do it' 'teachers only work 9 - 3, can't see why they moan' type comments but behind these lie a real problem: teacher drop out rates. Teachers leave teaching in droves and it's wasteful (the amount of money spent training teachers) and causes problems for our education system. One study by Buckingham Uni showed that after training only 2/3 of teachers stayed teaching after a year. Another study showed that of all the teachers who trained in 2000, only 40% were still teaching 8 years later. That's a drop out rate of 60%. I know myself of people who I trained with and I know loads who have left the teaching profession (bloody good teachers too, some of them) because they felt it was too much.

Teachers dropping out is a huge problem, the stress and the terms and conditions can be really tough. To increase to that us madness, even if perhaps it was not worded very clearly.

My DP is a teacher. He's committed, brings work home, is involved in extra-curricular activities, etc., but I work longer hours than he does, with way less holidays. I'd never knock what he does, as he does an amazing job, but he would be the first to admit teachers do not have the monopoly on stress and being hugely over-worked. He regularly tells folks I have it way worse than him, but we both chose the career paths we have, and really enjoy them.

my dh leaves the house at 6am and returns at 8pm (inlcudes 1hour commute each way, so works 7-7) , does an hour or so at home, often works a couple of weekend hours, rarely takes lunch, and gets 25 days holiday a year. "preperation time" is on his own time. His job is hugely stressful and demanding, he manages over 100 people, million pound budgets, lurches from one crisis to another. and paid a similar amount to a head teacher, but without a pension at the end of it. So please teachers...as others have said, you do not have the monopoly on stressful jobs, nor do you have it rough. dealing with teenagers? easy compared to some clients. Long hours? I don't think so.

My uncle moved from industry to teaching 20 years ago, teaching chemistry and physics in senior school. He always maintained that the lessons he learned and work ethic gained in industry meant everything he needed to do was done by 6pm, he never had work to do at home, as he was quite able to do it during the day.

Look at my post again: it's not a 9 hour day, it's an 11 hour day. I do 9 hours at work (I count my lunch hour in that as I never have one), and then do a minimum of 2 hours more work at home. Then at least 5 hours on Sundays. I don't mind doing it - it's the reality of the job - but that's why the holidays are there, to balance it up. The job is so full-on - you might come in feeling crap and thinking that you'd like a day of quietly sitting at your desk, but if it's year 9 set 3 period one you'd better be on form as those kids will show no mercy.