To think the long school holidays are not for the teachers' benefit?

[NotInMyDay]

Discussion on BBC Breakfast this morning re long school holidays. A rep from teachers' union was saying the long school holidays were vital for teachers to rest and recuperate so that they could do the best for our children at the start of the next school year.

AIBU to think that it's the children who need this break and therefore the teachers have it too? Rather than NEEDED by the teachers.

I think that most teachers do a fantastic and unenviable job but they don't need to recuperate any more than GPs, surgeons, nurses, bus drivers etc.

It would be a good idea to have 5 shorter terms in schools as children and teachers would get less tired. The Autumn term is far too long in my honest opinion. Better to have 4 x 2 week holidays and 1 x 5 weeks in September plus bank holidays.

I know a teacher who teaches in a Primary in a fairly rough area of Newcastle and she says that long school holidays are a real problem as it takes her several weeks to get the children to a place where she can actually teach them. They definitely regress in every holiday.

Other countries have 4 and 5 term years and I would hope that teachers and teaching unions would consider it as an interesting idea that would benefit them, the children and the economy.

That said, I don't think teachers are underpaid compared to similar professions with similar qualifications.

A standard school year where every school had the same term/holiday dates by law would be a good idea too.

MoreBeta, that is an interesting suggestion. Do you know which countries have 4/5 terms?
My gut feel, based on my own children & the opinions of friends who are teachers, is that it takes way too long to get children settled back into a learning mindset in the autumn after the long break - but that is just my opinion. I'd be interested to see if there was any evidence for this.

Ariel the holidays would still be 13 weeks altogether, just spread around differently, and about the same amount would still be in the sunny weather window, so your argument about destroying the British tourist industry wouldn't hold up. In fact, if LEAs were a bit organised about spreading their holidays around, the whole summer could be used effectively. ATM because virtually the whole country has the same term dates, many family holiday destinations are half empty and desperately trying to fill their accommodation with eg. Sun Holiday vouchers, and then start charging silly money to recoup from about July 20th onwards until September 1st.
Just imagine if eg Northamptonshire broke up for two weeks on May 1st back on the 14th, three weeks on July 1st, back July 21st, then had another break up for 2 weeks starting on September 1st so back on Sept 14th, that would be seven weeks in the reasonable weather. ATM only summer half term, one week, and five week summer holiday are actually in the good weather window, so we'd be out and spending for an extra week. Meanwhile eg. Leicester does the same thing but starts the cycle a week earlier, and Derbyshire starts its cycle a week later, and so on, so at any one time about one third of the available families are free to go on holiday. Tourist destinations would not be so over-packed out and it might be possible to drive in Cornwall at more than five miles an hour again.
Might need to wiggle things about a bit for GCSE and A level years but I'm sure it's do-able, just needs some joined up thinking and acceptance that sometimes headteachers will have to let children have bank holidays rather than bury them in half terms or main holidays whenever possible.

Which countries and what do they have?Sweden looks the same as us with an even longer summer holiday.Don't the US have an even longer summer holiday,what about France?Also you have to look at the dynamics of different countries,length of school day/week etc.

Personally I don't feel my kids should suffer for kids in Newcastle,the vast maj of kids aren't like that.My kids and imvho most kids, particularly in recent times with overloaded timetables,after school clubs/wrap around care etc need the long school holiday.

Also I've taught in inner cities and not had a problem with kids in Sep,to be frank teachers teaching in these areas need a longer holiday than most but as the op says it isn't about teachers it's about kids who aren't allowed to be kids these days and they need a long holiday whether that is an inconvenience to their parents or not.

OK fussbucket, your argument makes theoretical sense, but we already get complaints from parents who live, say, on the borders of Derbyshire and Leicershire, who may have various aged children in different LEAs with different holidays. I remember when I was teaching the fuss that some parents kicked up if we had even ONE day which was different for the primary school than the secondary.

It would need a massive, country-wide change of mind-set to get anything like what you're suggesting, even though, like I said, it does make sense in principle.

but MrsHeffley what do you do with your children during the long summer holiday? Mine don't get the chance to unwind & relax because they go from one holiday camp to the next. Relaxing during the summer holidays is a luxury for kids with parents who are teachers themselves or who have one SAHP.

PostBellum - we considered moving to New Zealand which has a 4 term year. The 2012 term dates are here. Someone upthread said certain parts (maybe all) of Australia do as well?

Although it was a very long time ago I remember as a child finding it quite a struggle to get back into school work again after the long summer break. My own children I know do also regress although we try to make sure keep doing some reading. The summer break is really too long and was definitely designed to facilitate children helping bring in the harvest back in Victorian times.

PostBellum, how things have changed

We were left at home on our own with a neighbour to dash to if things got tricky.

(if we were lucky )

I don't work during the holidays,I go unpaid which is a struggle.

I think more hot air should go towards looking at what is best for children and providing good enjoyable,relaxing,affordable cover during the holidays not the keep em in school because parents work attitude.

Term dates are going to start changing anyway, more and more, as more schools become academies. I've already had a minor crisis when a termtime only client who teaches at an Academy turned out to have two days difference in last October half term, I've also had confusion caused by another termtime only client who didn't tell me her children were at a public school, and I know my own children's school will be an Academy from next September.

PostBellumBugsy
"Relaxing during the summer holidays is a luxury for kids with parents who are teachers themselves or who have one SAHP."

really do you know all teachers and sahp?

In France, the children have (more or less) 6 weeks on/2 weeks off throughout the year, and a long summer holiday.

French school children get very tired but that is much more to do with the ultra long desk bound school day that the length of the terms.

Of course i don't Boney - how could I possibly know all teachers & sahp!!!! I'm a single working mum - the whole show rests on me. I work full-time to support myself & my children - in my mind being able to have 13 weeks a year with your children is a luxury & it breaks my heart when I hear people further up the thread referring to that time as when they get to be a "proper parent". I am a proper parent 365 days of the year - IMO clearly.

However, I'm more interested in how the structure could work better. I don't think it serves children, parents or teachers very well at the moment.

Don't French kids get Wed pm off too?What are their daily hours?

i personally think more school holidays would be good.

French children have 24 hours of class a week - three hours every morning and three hours every afternoon, on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursday and Fridays. The teacher has two extra teaching hours to allocate to soutien (extra support, either individually or in small groups) as he/she thinks fit.

Wednesdays are for sports, music, art, catechism etc which need to be arranged outside school. Many French mothers don't work on Wednesdays in order to do the logistics...

I'm talking about primary, by the way, and the lunch break is 1.5 or 2 hours long.

In secondary children do 8 am to 17h30 pm (sometimes later) and have Wednesday afternoon (not morning) off.

I don't think the holiday companies would stop hoiking the prices up if school holidays were staggered. I think they'd just make them more expensive all the time. That's the way things go isn't it?

I agree and also think kids spend far too long on school sites some of which are hideous already. Some kids are there from 8am until 6pm.I can't believe anybody could think these kids would benefit from even more time trapped in a school environment with little green space and artificial lighting.

MrsHeffley - I do so agree that the school environment is not always somewhere that children ought to spend any more time than is strictly necessary.