To think the long school holidays are not for the teachers' benefit?

[NotInMyDay]

Discussion on BBC Breakfast this morning re long school holidays. A rep from teachers' union was saying the long school holidays were vital for teachers to rest and recuperate so that they could do the best for our children at the start of the next school year.

AIBU to think that it's the children who need this break and therefore the teachers have it too? Rather than NEEDED by the teachers.

I think that most teachers do a fantastic and unenviable job but they don't need to recuperate any more than GPs, surgeons, nurses, bus drivers etc.

Funny about saying that '' i work hard''

I work and have worked with lots of people who huff and puff about how hard they work when in my opinion of working along side them I don't believe they do.

It is a matter of opinion how hard someone works.

It never used to be like that Athinginyourlife, there used to be something called 'professional judgement' but schools are so anxious about Ofsted and being found wanting - not necessarily in teaching terms, but in ensuring consistency so that every child has to have the same 'opportunity of experience' and monitoring and tracking progress is akin to nirvana - so teaching has ime become much more rigid. There used to be schemes of work with agreed skills to be taught and shared outcomes but how you got there was up to you, but not anymore. This is more the case at KS3, and I thank god for Alevel which is less prescribed, but it was at KS3 you could have most fun and I miss it. But such is progress.

Fashion - there used to be a thing called professional judgment? :o

Yeah, I can see why they needed to get rid of that!

Professionals? Making judgments? Outrageous liberty! :o

Same opportunity of experience?

Who are the philistines who come up with and enforce this shit?

Ah, ignore me, I'm being a cynical ratbag . The classroom teaching and the camaraderie in the trenches is the best part of the job.

I am a little sick of teachers explaining how they work through lunchtime, and how they do work at home. They are not the only ones doing this. I am a nurse and I'm lucky to even get a lunchtime most days that I work. I am also working when I get home, ensuring that I am up to date and extra study, extended roles, etcs.. And I'm sure I'm not in the only profession where this happens.
There are many jobs where this happens and we don't get these long breaks to recuperate.

Teachers need to spend time preparing every single lesson they are going to teach from start to finish - all the content, materials, tasks the children will need to complete, including work for those at either end of the ability spectrum and in the middle.

Consider how long it takes, in any job, to prepare to make an effective presentation to 30 people. Then imagine you will be doing this preparation every night four times (four lessons every day to prepare for). That's just the start of the work teachers do at home, and not even the start of what they do in the daytime.

I do not begrudge them a single day of their holidays.

They have the explain because there's a thread like this one every arse-aching few weeks. No- one's having a pop at nurses. If you want better conditions get on to your union.

Going to say the same thing I say to all people who think teachers have too many holidays and such a cushy time - if it's that great, go and do the job. It's open to all and you will be able to enjoy all the perks of the job! If it's so good then do the job. It isn't luck that teachers apparently get all this time off, it's a choice, a choice that anyone can take. I will happily help anyone with their application for teacher training and help them with work experience.....

....don't all rush at once now......

....thought not, and that's why teachers get all these 'perks', because there are so many people who say they couldn't do the job.

I'm sure lots of people work at home. I know DH does. With him, though, it's kind of "optional extras". He could get everything done at work, though he wouldn't be making strides professionally. I can't get everything done at work. 10% of my timetable is PPA, which works out at 2.5 hours per week. There is literally no chance of getting all my marking and prep done in that time, and I couldn't do my teaching job properly if my lessons weren't planned. And I'm quite sure lots of parents would be moaning if homework wasn't marked. I am not suggesting I have it worse than everyone else, but in my house, DH can do work in the evenings but if he decides he'd rather watch TV then it makes no odds- he can do it tomorrow instead. I don't usually get that option. Just before anyone jumps on me, I would like to say again that this is the situation IN MY HOUSE.

Jesus. I really don't know why these discussions always descend into "you think you work hard^? Huh! I work 20 hours a day shovelling shit with no lunch and my boss beats me every five minutes with a rubber hose."

I don't care if teachers have lots of holiday. I would rather the people teaching my son are well rested, not embittered and full of energy and enthusiasm. FGS, these are the people entrusted with his education and well being for 40 weeks a year!
On the subject of holiday, I do think it would be easier for me, as a lone parent with little money to go on extended holidays, and childcare issues, if the summer break was 4 weeks, but I don't think that the amount teachers work is an issue.
I would like to see the summer break earlier in the year though, as it is really almost Autumn by the time it comes, and the weather sucks in August!
Since kids are not helping with harvest anymore, it would make sense to have the long summer break in June, when the days are longest, and the weather is hottest.

Good point, August is now monsoon month.

Spookey, as a nurse, do you feel under constant and tiresome attack for laziness by people who claim to know exactly what your job entails? This is a genuine question. Teachers are usually just trying to explain their situation (even though there is no point because some people just want to think what they think, no matter what). I agree that you don't get the long breaks that we get, and that is one of the MANY reasons that I am glad I did not choose to be a nurse. I feel great admiration for your profession though, and I think that you, like teachers, are entitled to have a moan about your job. Which you did. Just now.

For anyone who wants to know how teachers pay is worked out, if you look at school teacher's pay and conditions, we get paid for 1265 hours per year, roughly 8.30-4.30 on every school day, not including any holiday.

I just checked it on my pay slip, where it gives my annual salary and my hourly rate and it works out right.

So no, we clearly don't get paid for the long holidays, and therefore are paid for directed time (which is not the hours that I work, I can't speak for anyone else).

Prior to being a teacher, I first worked in the NHS, and then in the private sector, and I earned a lot more it he private sector, but I have more fun doing this job, and I love the holidays where I can actually spend time with my DS instead of the hour or so a day I have in term time.

Like everything, you have to balance up the pros and cons of what you are being offered. I am happy to be paid to work 1265 hours, even though I work many more, because I love the job, I am a bloody good teacher, the kids love me, and I get stinking results, but I see the holidays as a perk that swung me into this career.

I teach at college level and we don't get the holidays the students get. There is 7 weeks annual leave (which I know is above the minimum) to be taken outside term time. The rest of the time we are in. It's quiet and you do get work done but it is not always then that the workload is high, I find assessment periods to be the busiest. I still get people blathering on about how I get all the holidays etc, it's as if they think I'm lying when I say otherwise. I would love to be term time only due to the DS's but know a lot of other jobs are worse. I'm knackered now though. I teach maths and not all our students want to be there despite it being post compulsory. I'm in most of this week and off all next week :)

Oh, and I could not be a teacher. I have worked with kids, and the headache at the end of the day! Noooo!

I am a little sick of teachers explaining how they work through lunchtime, and how they do work at home. They are not the only ones doing this. I am a nurse and I'm lucky to even get a lunchtime most days that I work. I am also working when I get home, ensuring that I am up to date and extra study, extended roles, etcs.. And I'm sure I'm not in the only profession where this happens.There are many jobs where this happens and we don't get these long breaks to recuperate.

Where exactly have teachers said this, Spookey80??

The reason teachers come onto threads like this is to object to comments such as yours. Honestly-if there were loads of threads about nurses being lazy, you'd probably feel the need to defend your profession as well.

I teach and do 12 hour days sometimes longer with the breaks in the day also being used for school related jobs. During holidays you spend at least one full week (of 12 hour days) doing all your assesing and planning for the next term so a wwks holiday means no break at all. Teachers also find that when we start getting run down by the end of term we often pick upbugs from the kids which knock you out for a few days. We spend most of our day having to be chipper and energetic with children and then deal with parents at the end of the day. If we need time to recover so do the kids, lots of the ones I know need a full week of chilling to get energy back to enjoy family holidays etc to be ready for a new term. They could make the summer holiday 4 weeks and move the other 2 weeks elsewhere which would give teachers a 2 week break in the summer.

the long school holidays are there so children can be free to work on the farms and bring in the harvest.

so we were told at school, anyway.

www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/DFE-00072-2011.pdf

Paragraph 62 on pg 113.

Apparently we only have to work 194 days this year because of the queens jubilee. It's 6.48 hours a day anyway, and 195 days on a normal year.

So my pay if for those hours, not for the 13 weeks holiday! otherwise I'd be rich!

Shame I still have to do 195 days because my LEA moved half term to swallow up the extra BH!

I still can't get over it being possible for someone to teach for over 30 years and not know that

No, me neither Feenie but hey ho it takes all sorts!

Well, my dc's Teachers work exceptionally hard, and are all fantastic. I am pleased for them when the holidays come around, as they are usually in need of a good break by then. Why would anyone begrudge them a few weeks off when they work so hard looking after, and educatuing OUR children all year round? I don't get it.

I hope they don't scrap the long summer break, as I love it too, and always feel like the children are 'all mine' for 6 weeks :)