to think dd's teacher was maybe over-reacting a tad?

[Northernlurker]

Apparently dd has been 'very rude' today as per the message from teacher via after school club. Very rude consists of not listening to story but talking to friends and then saying 'no' when told to stop and 'no' when told to move. Now I agree this is very rude and the teacher obviously dealt with it at length because dd was in floods of tears when collected by after school club. I have spoken to dd and she was talking because the book was one we have at home and she was telling her friends as much. At the end of a hot day, at the end of term her attention is shot to pieces as is that of most of the other kids. AIBU to think that a message home about this infraction was overkill. She didn't get a warning, she didn't get a timeout - and really what am i supposed to do about this? i speak to dd about her day every day. i am clear about what is expected but seeing as she's a stubborn 4 who has been at school less than a term i don't expect miracles. Frankly impressed we've got this far.

Or should I be grovelling tomorrow?

Ilovesooty, how are exploring the world around them or engaging in give and take with children not elements of a learning process?

I think there's a time and place for such individual exploration. A whole class activity with common expectations is not that time and place - and I am by no means the only person who has said so. That does not preclude pupil input but if the child is hampering the enjoyment and learning of the group that situation needs to be addressed - particularly if the child says "no" when asked to behave in such a way as to enable learning to take place.

Agreed. But if you are upset at the thought of your PFB being told off for saying 'no' to a teacher - twice - then I am guessing home schooling may be the way forward for you.

All the other children and the teacher give, then, while the rude child takes? Seems unfair.

"Shall we, as a class, sit and listen to every child's passing thought"
Yes, why not? Unless you're possessed of some sort of tunnel vision about the reading of the book, what's the problem?
That's taking the concept of 'child led' activities just a little too far, don't you think?
Math, you are beginning to sound like a complete zealot, are contradicting yourself hand over fist, and are taking the whole thing far more seriously than the op, at this point.

You must, in your role as "consumer of education", have driven your kids teachers to the brink of a nervous breakdown over the years. You sound like a complete nightmare, and it's an easy assumption (we can all make them) that your kids are no different.

math You and I have never met,but we do seem to share and understanding and a respect for children as human beings in their own right.

Implying that the rest of us have no understanding of, or respect for children.
Unbelievably rude.

I have a respect and understanding and sympathy for the other children in the class who just want to hear the story that's been started. Mine have both been in that situation.

I don't think a child of four would even know the word disrespectful, let alone be consciously rude

This is possibly the funniest thing I have read on mumsnet this year.
By three, most children will have at least begun to master the art of deliberate rudeness. If they don't know the word 'disrespecful', I suspect a large percentage do have the concept down. In fact, a great deal of 'under-fives' humour derives from exactly this concept.

By this age, most children are capable of understanding right from wrong and of learning and practising manners. A teacher or caretaker of children ought to be encouraging and developing those skills.

Talk about 'poor expectations' and 'underestimating' children...

LeQueen if Math is as earnest and wordy when negotiating with young people as she is on here I suspect they'd comply out of sheer boredom. I've found a lot of pupils prefer clear boundaries and expectations and like to know what the task in hand is and to get on with doing it.

gettinghappy

and yet from the tone of your posts if your child is told off you will be going straight down the formal complaint route.

Still coming back to the point that the UK school system isn't exactly a shining light at the top of the international rankings lists...

Do people actually expect to read to a group of children (or even a single child) and not have it be in any way interactive? How dull.

SodoffBaldrick

"Do people actually expect to read to a group of children (or even a single child) and not have it be in any way interactive? How dull."

that would depend on how you define interactive.

Ilovesooty

Sod - a child gabbing on to a friend is not 'being interactive' ,with the story - they are just chatting and being a PITA.

Isn't reading a story aloud to children interactive anyway?

I have 5 DCs; oldest 22, youngest 10. Four DDs, one DS. I have been a single parent since 2007.

None of them is rude or disrespectful. Two are now in university. The oldest is about to graduate and go on to her first job, second is about to finish his first year. The other three are at different stages of school.

I think it behoves parents to take an active interest in their children's education. I assume so anyway from the threads where teachers have moaned about parents not showing up for Parent Nights, not doing required reading with young children, not ensuring homework is done properly, not caring if their children decide to drop out, etc.

I think it behoves parents to take an active interest in their children's education. I assume so anyway from the threads where teachers have moaned about parents not showing up for Parent Nights or asking stupid questions when they do come, not doing required reading with young children, sending young children to school unable to perform basic self care or unable to appreciate the difference between school and the zoo, not ensuring homework is done properly, not caring if their children decide to drop out, etc.

Hilarious humour btw ladies. I hope your children will learn from what you say and not what you do when it comes to rudeness.

What is that you do, mathanxiety? Because I would like to post about how you should do it properly, without having any experience of it myself.

As for rudeness, the bit where you likened everyone on the thread to child beaters was not your best argument.

It was pretty rude to suggest the teacher might have been skiving if she wasn't at school as well.

Do people actually expect to read to a group of children (or even a single child) and not have it be in any way interactive? How dull.

Could you go back through the thread and find where anyone actually suggested that?
Because if you can't, I'd respectfully suggest you stop arguing with phantoms.

Shall we, as a class, sit and listen to every child's passing thought, or is the teacher allowed to end a discussion so that the book can actually be opened?'

Yes, why not? Unless you are possessed of some sort of tunnel vision about the reading of the book, what is the problem?

The problem is that the rest of the DCs don't want to listen to every DCs passing thought-they tend to be bored rigid by it!

ExoticFruits, you were there? You could read their minds?

How many times have you actually read a story to more than 20 4yr olds at a time,Maths? I would be rich if I had a £1 for every time and I don't have to be there to know. They would get bored and fidget and lose interest entirely.You may be interested in every word your DC utters but other 4 yr olds are not!

At our parent-run and led pre-school (4 is pre-school here) when we read aloud to the kids it really doesn't just involve reading the story aloud to them.

I've avoided joining in this thread because ... well as a teacher I'm sure people can fill in the blanks. I think some of the posters must either have had very bad experiences of schools and are bringing these issues, or a real misunderstanding of how a class of 30 children can function effectively and safely.
I explain, discuss, negotiated, debate, etc. with my children at home, but I just have a vision in my head of how the other 29 children cope while that would happen in the clasroom; they would get bored, fidgety or physical while they waited for the free-spirit to have the negotiation with the teacher (and any of the other 4 year olds that were still patiently focussing); I have visions of the less patient ones rolling round the floor, getting up and walking away to look for something to do, fiddling with the person next to them, hair tweaking, maybe even hurting the child next to them. But, to be honest, it's not surprising, they're bored of waiting for their story.

Of course it never involves just reading the story aloud!!! It doesn't however allow every DC to waffle on for as long as they want regardless of the needs of the rest!