to feel upset and defeated and not know what to do next?

[extremepie]

Ok, bit of a long one but here is the short(ish) version:

My DS1 was 5 in Feb, and is not in school. He was offered a school place at a school just under 2 miles from our house, despite there being 9 schools closer to us, one of them being just 500m from us.

We cannot send him to the school he has been offered.

He is currently attending the same pre-school as his brother who has just turned 4 but will not be able to return after easter as he is too old, meaning that after easter he will have no pre-school or school place and will just be sitting at home with us until a place at the closer school comes up (he is currently on the waiting list)

DS2 has autism so we have a TeamAroundFamily thing set up with social services to try and help us get them both into school (amongst other things) and they have assisted me in appealing for the closer school under rule 2 - special social or medical needs. We sent them a whole bunch of reports from our paediatrician, speech therapist, SENCO, just about everyone officially connected to our family, outlining our needs as a family for both DS's to attend this particular school. I also wrote a letter myself.

Got a letter yesterday saying that they had considered our information and decided that it doesn't sufficiently prove that the particular school we want fulfills our needs.

This basically now means that DS1 has no school place and will not get one in the forseeable future unless by some miracle enough children leave the school for him to be offered a place.

I don't know what to do now. I have honestly done everything I can think of and none of it is working. Want to bash my head against a brick wall!!

Any ideas? Help!

Sorry, afternoons not evenings!

Well, I have tried to answer every piece of advice I've been given and given reasons why I don't feel it would be the best option.

I also think that if I asked my mum for help with home schooling DS1 for the time being I know she would whole heartedly support me, she knows how bad the further away school is and what it would mean for him to go there. She would rather that he was home-schooled temporarily rather than go there.

She used to work in the school system so she knows what she is talking about and I trust her advice.

Again, I'm not trying to purposely diss this other school I'm just trying to be honest!

extreme don't wait for ds to get to school for his needs to be recognised please use the link I've posted and apply for a statement yourself. It takes six months to get a statement, for a school to gather evidence it takes another six months first meaning ds will be without support for a whole year.

The six months for school could be even longer if they aren't good at recognising and recording needs too and many aren't.

Sorry insanity, didn't mean to ignore you!

I will definately apply for DS2's statement, I want to start the ball rolling there as soon as possible I just honestly didn't know where to start so thank you for the link :)

The link gives you the letter you need to send, ask on the SN children's board and there are loads of mums there who have done it themselves and will support you every step of the way.

OP, when you say about your mum : 'she knows how bad the further away school is and what it would mean for him to go there', it really does seem as though the problem you have is not about the distance, but about the school. I think you are using the distance as the major reason for your DS not going there, when really the reason is that you don't like the school.

That therefore explains why you can't find a transport solution - because if you solve the transport issue, you will be left with sending your DS to a school you don't like - which you are not prepared to do. I'm sorry to be harsh, but you are no more deserving/undeserving of a better/worse school than anyone else, and to blame this on transport/logistics is a bit disingenuous.

Extreme,

Can I repeat my question about the way sibling preference works at the school you wish DS2 (and then ultimately DS1) to go to? As I see it, if the sibling rule there ONLY applies to younger siblings, you may in fact not get a place for DS1 there until Year 3 at the earliest (when the Infant Size Regulations no longer apply so appeals get easier to win) - so whatever solution you are proposing for now needs to be robust in the longer term.

Also, how likely is DS2 to get in there - given that his elder brother hasn't and you do not yet have a Statement naming the school?

I'm afraid that I haven't been through this thread with a fine enough toothcomb to glean all the relevant facts, but is it possible that even the BEST case scenario for you at present is:

DS2 gets a school place somewhere for September, but not at the preferred school. His needs are assessed, he goes through the Stementing process, after some months gets a Statement naming your preferred school with the special unit, and moves there. DS1 moves up the waiting list due to sibling preference and gets the next available place from the waiting list (which could be after 2 weeks or 2 years, these things are somewhat unpredictable).

The WORST case scenario involves DS2 not getting an initial school place either, or one in the same school DS1 was initially given and no sibling preference for DS1 once DS2 moves into the special unit.

In the context of those scenarios, then you have to review your current course of action. You are rejecting suggestions on here because "I don't feel it would be the best option".

Realistically, there is no "best" option [in the sense you mean it of there being a "good" option] available to you. You have to decide on your 'least worst' option. Is that to HE DS1 for an indefinite period, potentially for several years, or is it to find some way (not a good way, not a convenient way, but SOME way) of getting him into some school (not the best school, but SOME school) as soon as possible, with a view to moving him as and when better options become available?

I walk ds a 4 mile round trip to school. Its knackering, for both of us. He gets really tired, and the walk home can be hellish.(It is all uphill and can take well over an hour).
We have been caught in hail/storms/torrential rain and he has been just crying all the way home (no bus).
We have often got a taxi home, which I can't afford.
Also, the time it takes up is a real problem.
YANBU.

Extremepie, I can't believe how many unsympathetic replies you're getting. Not helpful, I know but IMO YANBU to be very disappointed with the situation you're in.
Definitely appeal.
Lots of luck.

Okay, I've tried to read through most of the posts, but there are lots, so my apologies if I've missed something and end up repeating it.

Do you know any other parents with DCs going to school you're not happy about? Sharing school runs could make this viable.

I think someone mentioned this up thread, but I don't think I read an answer....is there any possibility of moving house? Getting closer to the school you have been offered, I mean. Or even closer to another school? With your DH not working and you still being on your course, now may be an okay time to consider this.

Generally speaking, I think there are ways around your situation, but you may have to be willing to accept that you won't get everything you want out of it. That is not intended to be a flippant comment, it just seems as though there's not much chance at the moment of you getting things exactly as you wished.

What is so bad about this school, btw? You keep saying it's bad, but do you have any evidence of this? If it's based on hearsay then I think you need to open your mind a bit. It sounded (up thread) as though you just seemed to think because it was undersubscribed that it wasn't good, and that's not really a reason to reject it.

weemumbelina, she can't appeal again, I think the process has been exhausted now.

I would echo RHP's comments too - you might well be working MUCH harder to find a trasnport solution if it were the preferred school that was so far away...

Is there another school with spaces approximately the same distance away that you might prefer? Or one on a good bus route but further away still? in other words, since you cannot change the need to travel, could you travel the same distance but to a school you would be happier with?

I'm not being disingenuous redhot, I admit that I don't want them to go to that school, however, if it was the school next door that would completely change the situation but it isn't and transport and logistics are a major issue for us.

I honestly have no idea if the sibling rule would work in reverse I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it but I'm almost certain that DS2 will be offered a place at the close school - partially because of distance but also because he does have a good case under rule 2 (medical & social needs) even with no statement.

If he doesn't get a place there we can appeal for him but again, we'll have to wait and see before we go down that road.

We live in an area with reasonably high movement so I am hopeful that he will be moved to the top of the waiting list in the near future - he is currently 3rd on the list and has moved up 1 place in the last few months.

NowThen, I have a strong feeling that if we did accept the place at the further away school this is exactly what would happen to us - DS1 already gets tearful and says he's tired on the walk to pre-school and that is only 20 minutes, I dread to think how he would deal with a walk more than twice that distance, twice a day!

Thanks wee :)

Surely you don't have endless time to shilly shally on this anyway, you can't just deny a child the right to an education. Your older son is already five - the local authorities are going to want him in some school place, or for you to show evidence of home schooling very soon. Thankfully for your son, as you seem incapable of making a decision, someone else will soon step in and make it for you.

Unfortunately teacher, the further away school is the only school in the area that still has places - possibly due to the fact that (for some reason) that particular school is not subject to class size legislation - the LEA/school board (whoever it is) sent us a list with all the schools that still had places on it and it was the only one in our area.

I don't personally know anyone whose kids go there but it seems to be a sort of 'sin bin' of schools - if you can't get in anywhere else, you go there as a last resort. My mum has had more experience of it than I have as she worked with a lot of kids who did go there.

Thanks for kicking me when I'm down flogging

"I'm not being disingenuous redhot, I admit that I don't want them to go to that school".

Extreme, that is absolutely fine IF you have an alternative method of providing a good education for your DS1. As I said further up the thread, I have home educated a child of a similar age and then re-integrated them into a school setting. I know that it can be done very successfully, in fewer hours per day than conventional schooling. However, I also know that it is not necessarily a cheap option and requires a reasonable amount of adult attention and time [caveat - these are less true if you have an intention of HEing long term using an autonomous approach - but for a short term HE aiming for your child to 'keep pace with' his school peers for instant reintegration when a place at school becomes available then a more 'input based' approach is likely to be needed].

However, with your DH as full-time carer for an autistic sibling, with only 2 half-days at pre-school which could be 'focussed HE' time, is the education you can offer at home genuinely better than that at the school you have dubbed 'bad' (have you visited?).

i would just get him into the school 2 miles away. itll be a pain at first, but at least hes in school. Then if your other child gets a place in the nearer school, you could try appealing to get him into that school then as a sibling, and if not, cross that bridge later.
In the meantime, obviously its not ideal or the easiest option, but you could potentially walk with a maxi-pushchair and a buggyboard, or catch a bus. Also maybe it might be worth applying to the family fund for some help with driving lessons for you or your partner

I'm not yet seeing a legitimate reason for you to have rejected the school tbh.

You admit that transport wouldn't be such a problem if this was your preferred school, which equates as the transport not being the problem now, but rather employed as a 'motive' to not go there. This in itself is not a bad thing, but be honest with yourself.

There are so-called 'bad kids' at and from every school. As well meaning as your mum inevitably is, listening to her prejudice here is not helping you. At the very least, you need to get in touch with other parents from the school, visit it, do some research. As it stands, it seems you have rejected the school entirely on the basis of hearsay and a transport problem that you have already implied could be overcome.

I don't wish to be harsh, or pile on criticism, but if you want to solve this problem, and you do seem to want to, there are things you need to be doing and compromises you should be considering.

well its pretty understandable to me that most people would be prepared to go the extra mile for a great school than have to have to put in a huge amount of effort for a school with a bad reputation that they dont really want, and that their other child wont be going to

IMO there's 2 issues:

1. You need to find a way of stopping DS2 from disrupting DS1's sleep. This is not fair to DS1 if he is tired all day because his brother has kept him up. Either you have DS2 in with you if he will not sleep alone, or you give up your bedroom for DS1 and sleep in your living room. Not ideal, but I'd say your child getting a restful sleep is more important than some discomfort.

1. DS1 needs to be in school. He's not being HE'd in any meaningful way, yes the school he's been offered may not be the greatest but I really think it is better than no school at all. You need to work out a way of getting him there whether that be walking, him cycling/on a scooter, bus, getting lifts etc. We live over a mile from school and for a time when he was in nursery class (so aged 3/4), DS2 did that journey 4 times a day (to school, home, back at 3 to collect his brother, home again). I don't think 4 miles is an unreasonable distance - and tbh once your DS actually starts at the school and you know people, you may find you get offers of lifts from other parents. Or that the school isn't as bad as you fear. Or indeed both!

at five he should be learrning through play. someideas to do at home/with granny

phonics dvd, reading and acting out stories, mak making, helping wiith the shopping, couinting out packets/vegetables etc, talking about longer/shoter carrots, counting and one more is, talking about the shape of packets and tins. (cuboids/cylinders) make repeating patterns with the shopping.

granny taking him to the woods should cover some of the physical, and knowledge and underrstanding of the world. talk about the things you see out and about. old things/new things, buildings, building sites, lamposts, shops, pillar boxes, phone boxes. count lamp posts.

creative... pick up some of the epupound insstruments from tescos or make your own shakers, drums and twangy elastic bands. (if your youngerone can stand the noise) get different paper from cheap shop and chalks/paint/crayons/wax crayons etc. . get him dancing moving to music. make things frrom junk and cellotape.

build with lego/bricks. try to get some pretend play going with dressing up clothes/toy kitchen/farm or whatever it is you have already. if it is a railway, make tunnels from boxes etc. or houses from bricks, factories, schools.

draw trreasue maps and go on treasure hunts around the house. (directions/maps/witing/mark making, counting steps/turns)

go to the park (with granny) to get in some of the physical stuff.

grow cress seeds and talk about how they change.

keep some examples of the stuff ds1 does, eg make a note of wht he has done with granny, keep some of his pictures. take photos of his models on yourr phone. if the education authority get arsy about not educating him, you can pull out your notebook of stuff that he has done to coverr yourself.

and do check out the home ed board.