Is the head a bit U? Or am I?

[EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog]

DD (7, y3) is bright but can be a very difficult child at times. However, her school are really not helping matters - I think they have lost all sense of proportion with disciplining her.

Last week DD bought a Practical Joke book from the school book fair. The following day she smuggled the rude-noise-making putty into school (against my express instruction) and played a prank on one of the break supervisors (who happens to be her close friend's mum): "Oooh, is that you farting, Mrs X?"

DD was promptly hauled into the head master's office for a chat about 'inappropriate' behaviour It was described as a 'serious event' to us parents. We obviously backed to school up 100% to DD's face, but privately I'm wondering if that wasn't a SLIGHT overreaction from school. She's 7 and bought the offending item at school FFS!

sdt but that wasn't what the thread was about. The op posted about the reaction to this one incident, which wasn't an overreaction IMO. It was only later into the thread (when op hadn't had a raft of positive responses) that her child has suddenly become a victim and presumably has some sn.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius - you've got it in one!

Oh, this thread was a test then.

Oh I hate these cryptic things I get ever so confused !!

I must be terribly draconian because I think that your daughter showed tremendous disrespect toward a member of school staff, and if my 6-year-old DS did that I would be concerned if he didn't go and see the head. The school have to maintain a standard of respect towards the staff, and every child must be a part of this.
Can you give other instances where she's been unfairly punished?

Wannabe - I accept that I did not post about the SN issue in the op. That was part of the sanity check - I now know most people would expect a 7-year-old to be able to judge whether to play a prank on a grown up or not. And i also know that quite a few 7-year-olds would still misjudge this. :)

People asked for clarification - so I gave the background as well. It has been hugely helpful, thanks everyone.

I tend to the view that whilst if is annoying and a bit silly, it was a break time and your DD wasn't disrupting a lesson. I think the supervisor should have just told her off rather than report to the head unless the girl didn't know when to stop when the supervisor asked her too. If it were in the rules these days for a supervisor to do such a thing, I think I would have taken the putty off the child myself if I had been the supervisor and maybe mentioned it to the teacher.

I do agree with the OP that the school have been a bit heavy handed and they would be better off picking their battles. They know the child has behavioural issues of some kind but I think sending her to the head for every little thing, including silliness at break time is OTT. Nobody was being hurt, what she was doing wasn't dangerous. Really you want her to behave in class but if she feels she can't do anything without the school coming down on her like a ton of bricks she isn't going to make any effort to behave anywhere.

Plus if you start sending her to the head for everything, where is there left to go as a punishment? How are they going to let her know when she does something really bad? Are they going to start excluding her?

BelleEnd - I agree with you about the need for discipline in schools. I just think there ought to be some proportionality.

And I could give you pages and pages of anecdotes about the idiots the school's anomalous approach to DD's difficulties - but I think I need to resist the temptation. It would turn into an uncontrollable rant be boring for you!

Some schools will have a behaviour policy which looks something like:

1. Tell the child to stop what they are doing.
2. Give a verbal warning of (say) time out.
3. Time out.
4. If poor behaviour continues send child to another class for 5 mins
5. Send child to the HT
6. Call parents in

So if child misbehaves on 5 separate occasions then it is quite feasible that they would find themselves in the HT's office. I doubt that the school send her to the HT for every incident - the HT has other things to be doing, but they clearly need to send her a strong message that she's just not getting so far.

OP wants to think herself lucky - I worked at one school that had an isolation room and a child could (potentially) be shut in this room alone (with an adult posted outside but unable to get out) for up to 4 hours. That was before being sent to the HT!

"Really you want her to behave in class but if she feels she can't do anything without the school coming down on her like a ton of bricks she isn't going to make any effort to behave anywhere."

But maybe the school are getting exasperated & don´t know what to do other than become "more heavy handed" if previous "tellings off" haven´t worked?

OP-you don´t want your daughter to be labelled the "naughty" one-but you say that there are "incidents"-plural.

I know times have changed, but when I was at school the majority didn´t put a foot wrong tbh, or one time of sending to the HT & that was enough.

This sad tale Of putty and wind breaking is just another example of broken Britain

I yearn for the good old japer-free days.

What a sad tale

It wouldn't be boring! :) I'm quite interested in this thread because there's a boy in DS's school who has emotional difficulties (undiagnosed, seems to be symptoms of a variety of conditions). He never earned his golden time so they changed the system for him... He got extra golden time simply for doing his work, where his classmates have to do extra to earn his golden time. Also, there have been instances of unacceptable behaviour (bullying other children, swearing, being very very rude to staff) that are ignored if he does them, but are punished severely if done by any of the other children. His classmates are starting to cotton on to this, and they think the double standard is unfair.
I'm not sure what I think about it- I understand that this child has specific needs, but I also reckon it will be very difficult for him when he grows up and people won't accept his behaviour.

I's so complicated, and I really feel for you and your little girl- Must be hard to send her to school when you're not happy with how they're treating her. :(

WannaBe - I responded to issues that came up during the thread. I didn't realise I was only allowed to comment on the OP.

But OP is the child happy at school. It is sometimes hard to separate how we would handle situations rather than a school where they have to manage 30 or so children in a class

Sending to the head clearly isn't working though, if the OP's DD has that many issues with behaviour. Either it is being overused as a punishment or it is the wrong approach and a change of tactic is required because if a child is going to the head all the time, it isn't working as a detterent or as a punishment.

To my mind, what the child did didn't warrant going to the head. The supervisor taking the putty away and telling her that is not how you behave would have been sufficient. This assumes that the child was not going on and on and not making such a massive thing of it that all the children in the playground laughing along. The OP didn't say that was what happened though. She did make it sound like it was a one off fart (for want of a better way of putting it) and one comment.

BelleEnd - I don't think, in the school you mentioned that they have the balance right at all. That is not how it would be done in my DS's school. They might have given golden time more easily, ie. if the child behaved they would be allowe golden time without having to earn extra but they wouldn't have been allowed to get away with bad behaviour like that. A child like the one you describe would have spent a lot of time outside the class room, working alone and being kept away from the other children .

BigBoobie (may I call you that? :o ) The child does spend a lot of time out of the classroom because he "can't be arsed to write today" and he does lose golden time if he's violent- But the choice is either to have double standards for him and the others, or have him being constantly punished. I just feel the school can't win, and I have no idea what the best way would be to tackle a situation like this.

My kids are well behaved and wouldn't do that sort of thing. However we all have fart humour and would find the whole thing quite funny. It does seem an over reaction to be honest but in a way it depends on the context. Is this one is a line of many naughty events from your DD?

The answer can sometimes be to have golden time which can be earned rather than lost.

Or a unique 'star chart' type reward (created with the child's input) where the child works "with the help of all the other children in their class" to earn a reward for the whole class.

That works well. Some schools do a marbles in the jar thing but some children are compelled to sabotage it, for whatever reason, having a unique 'all about them' reward system focuses their attention but also means that the whole class benefits. Because ultimately, if bad behaviour in a child does get resolved, the whole class does benefit.

BelleEnd - you can call me whatever you like!

I think the problem is one of perception from the school's point of view. I know that in DS's school the badly behaved children don't really get away with it, they are managed. The problem is that the other children and then their parents, get the idea that the difficult children are somehow getting an easy ride when they aren't. The school just know that repeatedly dragging a child before the head or punishing them helps nobody. Ultimately, the children are in school to learn and if all the naughty ones do is spend their time sitting in a 'reflection room'or they are forever trying to escape or worse still they are in the class room causing havoc then they and their classmates aren't getting much of an education. It is tricky, isn't it because it doesn't stop the other parents being aggrieved that their child seemingly has to behave and doesn't get one-to-one attention. Difficult to know what to do for the best

She sounds like a right brat, and your reluctance to back up the school is obviously playing it's part in enabling her.

Yes, it is a tricky situation to get right. It seems much easier to get it badly wrong! Put it like this - in our previous area DD went to a nursery first, then preschool (both p/t) and although we sometimes got the impression she was a bit of a challenge to handle, she was generally regarded as bright, polite, intense and a bit quirky. In this school she seems to be perceived as the 'naughtiest child in school'.

In an ideal world I would just like someone to take the trouble to teach her the skills she needs to be able to conform and get on better, so she can feel good about herself again. Of course, I do as much of this as I possibly can at home, but in a home environment there is a limit to how much I can teach her about interacting with 30 peers, a TA and a teacher....

Floggingmolly - the reluctance is yours, to read the thread. Can't say I blame you as it's rather long.

Is your DD on the SN register EyeofNewt?

I was just thinking there is a boy in DS's school who is a challenge because he is both very bright and very badly behaved. He is on the SEN register for his behaviour.

I am not sure how it helps particularly other than the fact that the school bear in mind that he has problems and he isn't left with 'the naughtiest boy in the school' label. It just seems all wrong to have write off any child like that and to do nothing but punish.

I don't know if there is a special SN register at our school. DD is on school action +, so has input from SENCO, Ed Psychs, and has been assessed last year. There are various recommendations for her from all of the above (well, not the SENCO who is useless has a very different perception of DD from us). DD doesn't qualify for a statement as she has no clear diagnosis. (Or rather, the dx she has is for Auditory Processing Disorder which is not the root cause of the problems.)

Despite all of this involvement DD is not progressing with her behaviour consistently....